The Tale of Kefir (克非尔) – by Joyful

This below article is written by Joyful, she is one of the active participant in the discussion area.
Kefir is one of the very important source of probiotic. Read on to find out more about kefir and how you can D.I.Y.
自制”克非尔” 中文版 在【这里

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(pictures taken from Dom’s)

Kefir is a unique fermented food which is rich in enzymes. The medium of culture used is commonly dairy milk even though nut milk or coconut milk are being used. Kefir is filled with friendly micro-organisms that balances your digestive system. In addition to beneficial bacteria, yeast and enzymes, Kefir is an excellent source of complete protein, essential minerals, lactic acid, valuable B vitamins (B2, B12), Vitamin K, A, D and Tryptophan.

Kefir is similar to a drinkable yogurt except it is more therapeutic than yogurt.

Brewing “real”  Kefir can be done at home. It is very easy and economical. This is one health product that commercialism fails to get a handle on. You need the following common household utensils to start the brewing process,

1. Glass bottles or mason jars (slightly bigger than the volume of kefir you wish to brew) – 1 bottle for brewing and 1 for storing the strained Kefir

2. Nylon strainer (with bigger mesh for ease of straining)

3. Plastic or porcelain soup spoon

4. Plastic or wooden chopstick (for stirring)

5. Handkerchief or cloth to cover the bottle

6. Fresh milk and Kefir Grains (1 tablespoon of grains to 1 cup of milk)

7. Small amount of Common Sense

Methods:

– Add the right amount of Kefir grains and fresh milk into a clean bottle.

– Cover with the handkerchief and secure with a rubber band.

– Let the mixture sits on your kitchen counter  (away from direct sunlight or any hot surface) for 18 to 24 hours.

– The milk will turn sour with curd and whey (clear yellowish liquid) indicating that it is ready for harvest.

– Stir to mix the curd and whey before straining. Strain the ready Kefir with the nylon strainer into a glass bottle and store in the fridge.

– It’s ready for consumption.

– Transfer the strained Kefir Grains back into the glass bottle, add fresh milk to make a new batch and the process repeats. Very simple.

Due to the hot climatic condition in the Tropics, you may find that the curd and whey separates a lot faster than 18 hrs. Taste it to establish your right timing for harvest. Each individual has different preference so it is entirely up to you. One caution though, kefir brewed less than 12 hrs is known to have a mild laxative effect and kefir brewed more than 48 hrs may cause constipation.

Home brewed real Kefir is one of the most powerful probiotic that can be delivered to your intestines, both small and large, no matter what commercial corporations may say.

I grew up having to fight the ill effect of antibiotic left in my body for years. My immune system lacked the ability to fight any weakest, tiniest bad bacteria that crossed my path, for many years. I developed resistance to many strains of antibiotics up to a point that I was put on 2-3 courses of antibiotics in a month.

My doctor looked at me shaking his head, asking me what should he do and I looked at him, did not know what to do with my head,  to shake or nod….after all, I came to him for help and not anything else. Then, I knew I had to take my health to my own hands. I researched and took a drastic change in my daily diet. I turned to raw vegetables and fruits through a juicing program, avoiding processed and cooked food.  I consumed probiotic supplements, and made yogurt regularly with the capsules. When my body received ample enzymes and the right type of nutrients, the healthy microflora within my guts start to flourish. And now, antibiotic is a thing of the past. Not only me, my family benefited from that change.

The best thing is, I no longer need to spend on probiotic supplements now because I have Kefir. I am free from any synthetic vitamins, pharmaceutical supplements or any unnecessary medication. I am back to the basic of nature, letting my body does her job with minimal interference.

There is difference between Kefir and Yogurt though both are cultured milk products.

See this link [here] if you are interested to find out the difference.

Some essential reading:

DOM’s Kefir

DOM’s How-To Make Kefir and Recipes

Probiotics Found to Help Your Gut`s Immune System – Dr. Mercola

other interesting link:

The Great Yogurt (and Kefir) Conspiracy – Healing Crow

克非尔-维基百科

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If you want to have some kefir grains for DIY, write to us at kefirbaby@yahoo.com with your name and address.

We are based in Kuala Lumpur and would be happy to send you the live kefir grains if you are anywhere from Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia or Philippines.

Shipping and handling charges applies. The amount collected will be channeled to fund charitable projects.


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355 thoughts on “The Tale of Kefir (克非尔) – by Joyful

  1. thumbs up … toes up … a big cheer to u, joyful … for sharing ur personal experience with us unselfishly … bravo ….
    i agree in totality what probiotic can do to our immune system … though i may not be strong like a bull … i do have occasional flu / cough during the season when most of the workmates r coughing / sneezing in the office …
    ever since i started diy enzyme lats aug … 2 months to go … i m going to achieve zero flu / cough record … no mc … i m going to ask for 100% attendance reward from my boss … hahaha …
    started to home brew kifir a mth ago … i really enjoy it as much as i diy enzyme … other than the health factors … they add color to my life … seeing the good baterias n enzymes dancing n bounching in the btl … they are full of life … amazing …
    anyone interested to have kefir grains to kick start home brew kefir … i m more than willing to spare the grains … provided he / she lives in klang valley … outstation ??? a bit susah la … unless u happened to be in kl … that can b arranged …
    ciao …

  2. Thomas,
    You are most welcome. Seeing people reverting to good health gives me great joy.
    Thanks for formatting it so nicely 🙂

    凡夫俗子,
    Your enthusiasm never fail to amaze me. What exactly did the friendly bacteria do to you I wonder. Anyway, I shared what I felt within me and nothing else. I hope many can win the battle of health…and thanks for your encouragement… 🙂

  3. hi joyful …
    we r wat we eat … since i have taken some many friendly baterias vis-a-vis enzyme n kefir … so i got to be friendly la … hahaha …
    just like u .. u feel joyful seeing ppl reverting to good health … the same logic applies … just that we have gone astray from fundamentals … its time to go back to basic …

  4. Kefir 和雪莲活酸菌其实是出于一个老祖宗, 我常常和朋友开玩笑说一个是留了洋,取了个洋名”kefir”,另一个留在本土, 保留了它原本的名字“雪莲”。我这个讲法其实也不是没有理由,kefir已经有好几千年历史了,人们也不知道它的发源地,不过它有两个美丽而神奇的传说。

    一个是说在很久以前有个洋人来到了西藏,他得了肝癌。一个老喇嘛给他喝雪莲酸奶,把他的肝癌给医好了。在他离开西藏之前, 他要求喇嘛给他一些雪莲带回国。另一个说法是说kefir是先知,prophet muhammad 给住在 caucasian mountain orthodox people 的 prophet grains,不可以外传。

    Kefir是土耳其文, 有长寿或好命之意。我倒喜欢雪莲这个名字,给人一个清新,洁而无染的感觉。天山雪莲是中药一种稀有的草药, 在武侠小说大师,金庸,的笔下它有起死回生的功效。Kefir是奶白色,一朵朵的像椰菜花。也许是这缘故加上它的医疗功效, 才得到雪莲这个美名。kefir能和天山雪莲相提并论,由此可知它对我们健康的辅助会有一定的功效

  5. 凡夫俗子
    is the kefir grain in crystal form? Is it taste like yogurt? How much do you charge for the grian? How do i reach you? How long we can keep it if we stop producing?

  6. hi … 叶

    no … the kefir grain is not crystal like … it is whitish … look more like floret of cauliflower … or like white fungus (雪耳) …

    ya … it tastes like yogurt but not yogurt though … both yogurt n kefir are fermented / cultured milk …

    no … i don charge … it is to be given free of charge … cos i got it free too … hahaha … otherwise someone will knock my head for charging ….

    mr enzymo … u may let 叶 know my email so that he / she may contact me direct … thanks buddy …

    u can keep the spare grains in the fridge … feed them with milk regularly … they will survive indefinitely if u shower love n care to them as if they are ur babies …

    any question … plse ask … i and sure joyful will be more than happy to share with u her experience too …
    ciao …

  7. Hi 叶,

    The crystal like grains you mentioned are “water grains” and the methods and medium of culture is different. But what we have here is the “milk grains”, and they are fresh (not dried or frozen) for immediate start.

    You may refer to the pictures above.

    凡夫俗子 is doing such a good job explaining, thanks. 🙂

  8. Wooow, that sounds amazing and inspiring ! Looking forward to adopt them… and will come to you guys/gals definately !!!
    Can i consume both the yogurt and kefir ? I am now d.i.y. Mr Enzymo’s yogurt and i like that so much.

  9. 叶 …
    sure u can consume both the yogurt and kefir …
    like the enzyme … they are all probiotic … containing good bacteria n enzyme …
    the major difference btw kefir n yogurt is that kefir will “grow n breed” indefinitely if they are properly taken care of … whereas yogurt’s potency will die off … n u need to replace with a new batch …

  10. 其实用生奶发酵kefir是最好不过了。
    因为它是没有经过高温处理,所以它含有生奶原本具备的酵素,足够消化掉奶里的脂肪,蛋白质和淀粉质,提供身体所需要的养分。
    Pasturised / UHT 奶是经过高温处理,虽说这个过程能把害菌杀掉,同时也把奶里面的益菌/酵素给杀死了,真的是得不偿失。
    这么一来,身体只能依靠自制的酵素来进行消化工作,这也无形加重了我们胰脏,肝脏和胆囊的负担,重于消化而忽略了代谢排毒的工作了

  11. 很多人也许不知道kefir是一种可遇而不可求,有钱买不得的东西。

    相传几千年前,kefir是阿拉真主传受给他的住在caucasus mountain 的orthodox people,是不可以外传,只能一代传一代。

    不可以外传的传统已经被推翻了,却打不破人传人的规则。好像是有威神在护守着似的,就连现时的工业技巧都不能生产kefir grains。

    所以它和我们diy 的酵素/yogurt不一样,因为这两者我们都可以从零开始,唯有kefir不能。如果我们想培植kefir grains的话,一定要有人肯割爱一些给我们,我们才可以如原以赏。

    这有着很深远的意义喔,就像中国人传灯的习俗一样,一代传一代,永不熄灭。因为肯割爱kefir grains给我们的人,又不收费,不但送了我们kefir grains, 也送上了他们的爱心和祝福,希望受者能拥有健康的体魄。

    我也是在一个很特殊的机缘下接受了一个kefir mama的割爱,成为了一个kefir papa。哈哈,如今还当上了kefir grand pa / great grand papa呢。我也想乘此机缘把这爱的信息播撒出去,作为感恩这个kefir mama的一个小小表示

  12. Cynthia 。。。
    没有说愚昧不愚昧的 。。。 我们都在学 。。。
    哈哈 。。。 往往知道自己愚昧的人一点都不愚昧呢 。。。
    joyful 的write-up不是写的很清楚了吗 ???
    它和yogurt一样是用奶来发酵的,味道也有点像yogurt 。。。
    它会生孩子,如果你照顾的妥当,它会知恩图报,给你生个子孙满堂 。。。
    因为老外蛮喜欢喝kefir奶昔 。。。 所以网上有很多有关kefir好处的报导 。。。
    最基本的好处就是对肠胃有毛病的人非常有效 。。。除豆豆 。。。解决便秘的烦恼 。。。
    在北欧和日本,它还被用来治爱滋病和癌症呢 。。。

  13. 我是被凡夫俗子的贴感染,然后再到可非尔的网页看看,就决定自己DIY. 当然得谢谢凡夫俗子的慷慨外传….希望借着他和 kefir mama 的祝福,可以成功传宗接代.(cross my finger)

    你可点击上面 可非尔-维基百科,会有很好的了解.

  14. 凡夫俗子 & joyful,
    谢谢了, 还知道我英文不好给了中文的 克非尔-维基百科 🙂 我要化点时间消化, 看看对我的病有没有帮助. 谢谢.

  15. Hi 叶,

    Of course you can 传宗接代, 子孙满堂… Relax your fingers, don’t cross them, make them move to start the process of culturing, hahaha … and you will be amazed.

    You may take your yogurt before meal and kefir after meal if you like. This is what a Russian nutritionist told me to do. You may also mix 30ml of diy enzyme into the Kefir, it makes very nice after meal drink .

    Keep all process of culturing very “simple” and make sure it suits your daily routine, then you will sustain for long. “Sustain” 持久 is always the key to success in everything we do. 🙂

    Have fun.

  16. Hi 叶,
    哈哈,希望我感染给你的不是HINI,我可不要上报喔 。。。 一笑
    其实常常喝kefir能提升身体的免疫系统,抵抗外来的病毒喔 。。。

    cynthia,
    慢慢来, joyful,你和我有的是时间 。。。 只有你有心学, 我们有耐心和你分享我们的经验的啦 。。。三个臭皮匠一定能赢过诸葛亮 ,,,

  17. 凡夫俗子 ,
    谢谢啊,感激哪。不知道你和 joyful 的代表图案可不可以换成有光环那种(天使)比较适合叻 。。。哈哈哈 :)

  18. 哈哈,cynthia 。。。
    你过奖拉 。。。 我只是凡夫一个 。。。
    joyful 也许可能吧,她有个菩萨心肠 。。。她配戴光环 。。。
    最慈悲不过还是我们的blog主, thomas啦 。。。 我充其量只配作一只益菌寄生在他的blog里 。。。看看我有什么可以kepoh的 。。。 一笑

  19. Hi 叶, Cynthia,

    等你们学成基本的方法之后, 我还有一些 recipes 可与你们分享呢…. 凡夫俗子也有他独创的一套功夫呀, 哈哈 🙂

    光环? 免了吧, 太亮了看不到路, 摔倒了就不好, 嘻嘻…. 你好可爱哦, Cynthia.

  20. 如果要掌握Kefir 的酸度,我们就的控制kefir grains的分量和发酵时间的长短了。。。多放些kefir grains 和发酵久一点,发酵出来的kefir就会比较酸 。。。 如此推算试验几次,你就可以发酵出合你口味的kefir了。。。

    通常我会用玻璃罐,把三茶匙的kefir grains加入1 liter 的奶水。然后用手巾把罐口包著,把它放在一个阴凉通风的桌面上,18-24小时后就可以收成了。发酵好的kefir,你会发现到下半罐是液体,whey,浮在上面像豆腐花的curd。在没过滤之前先用根筷子把它搅拌均匀。再用一个nylon/plastic 的过滤具把它过滤。过滤的kefir可以收藏在冰箱,kefir grain可以另外放在一个玻璃瓶子,加些奶收在冰箱里养着。

    P/S 用手巾把罐口包著是因为要让kefir透透气。
    避免用金属用具,只采用玻璃,塑胶或是尼龙用具来发酵kefir。
    据说发酵少过12小时的kefir会造成轻微的泻肚,超过48小时会令人便秘。
    奶水不用煮过,直接从冰箱拿出来就可以使用。

  21. 偶尔会听人家说 : 这几天身体不舒服,所以没敢喝酵素/kefir 。。。
    哈哈,这也就说明了人们对酵素/kefir的了解还不够透彻 。。。
    这两样东西都是probiotic, 它们能够帮助身体排毒,代谢和提升免疫力,抵抗外来的病毒 。。。so,为什么生病了,反而不敢喝酵素/kefir呢???
    酵素/kefir应该是不会和药物相撞的,不过为了给自己安心一点,我们可以在服药前或者后两个小时才喝酵素/kefir,这就不会有什么差错了 。。。

  22. I am not sure about 酵素, but for kefir, I would suggest that you do not take with antibiotics (抗生素)when you are taking a course of it. You may increase the kefir consumption (for a period of time) after you finish the full course of antibiotics to rebuild the microflora of your guts.

    However, this is what I would do if any of us at home is coming down with flu, cold or throat infection, I would NOT rush to get antibiotics but I would double their kefir intake. That would give our bodies more good soldiers to fight the infection.

    This is what “Pro”biotic means, “For” life. “Anti”biotics = “Anti”life.

    Other than antibiotics, I think what 凡夫俗子 said is logical.

    I qualify: of course there are certain times when antibiotics is necessary, more for “intervention” purposes, then one should not resist it.

    Note: Kefir is effective to ease food poisoning (食物中毒). I would eat the grains at the onset of diarhea. 🙂

  23. hi, I am very happy to read thru all the article in your website. Btw, is there anyway for me to get the kefir grain too? i live in Penang. Thanks!

  24. 如果你觉得一大早不是很适合喝冰冻的kefir的话,你可以临睡之前把明天要用的分量拿出来,放在桌面上,第二天就不冷啦 。。。
    这个做法还有一个好处,就是放在外面的kefir还会继续发酵,kefir会变的更滑更creamy 。。。 好像溶了的雪糕 。。。 so yummy 喔 。。。

  25. I had brewed the kefir yesterday night and i took a good look at them this morning (about 12hrs) : Top layer somthing like the “tau fu fah” nearly float up to the rim,
    at the bottom has some residue. The whey is so little and with bubble . . .
    Nothing similar as the photo post up one lo. So worry now.

    We can use raw milk for brewing. Raw milk is it those we can buy from Indian’s shop? do we need to heat up and left to cool before we start.

  26. hi 叶,

    I am so glad you get your fingers moving now, hahaha…

    What you have is perfectly normal. Bubbles means the grains are working hard, thus producing CO2. Sometimes you don’t see lots of whey. The baby grains takes time to adjust to their new home (your house lah) but they will surely work. And, what you see now is only 12hrs, wait till it’s 24hrs, you will see whey. You may also stir it a bit now and that will excite the grains to work faster.

    One reason for the slow separation (into curd and whey) could be … you might be putting in less grains than you should (for a start). I would recommend 1 tablespoon to 1 cup of milk.

    Raw milk means you don’t boil the milk at all. It comes from the cow, goes through the milkman, into your fridge or straight into your fermenting jar. Then, all the beneficial enzymes, nutrients, vitamins and live good bacteria are retained. And when raw milk is being pre-digested by the kefir grains, it adds more values to the drink.

    So now, can you see what good stuff you have received in your little jar? 🙂

    Thanks for raising these valuable Qs, they benefit others too.

  27. hi 叶 …
    u r on the right track … relax la … not to worry …
    of course … if u wanna the taste u want (i mean the sourness) … u may have to try out a few times by varing the grain quantity n duration of fermentation … always remember : practice makes perfect … no short cut … lol …

    b4 u strain the kefir … remember to stir it with a chopstick / plastic spoon … so that u can mix the whey n curd … it will make straining easier too ….

    ya … raw milk is the milk we buy from the indian shops … i don boil my milk … cos like all raw food … raw milk contains its natural enzymes which are necessary to break down the protein … fat n carbohydrate in the milk itself … if u boil it … all the enzymes will be denatured / deactivated …

    keep it up … don give up wo ….

  28. Hi Eden from Penang, my favourite destination.

    IF you have READ and READY to start brewing kefir, I have a way for you to receive the grains 🙂

    If you don’t mind, and … ahem ..Thomas also doesn’t mind, please let me have your email address.

    ps: for those who lives outside KL, feel free to post your requests. We may have ways to help.

  29. Hi Cynthia,

    不要欣赏太久啦, 快快消化,开始动手做点来试试吧.

    俗语说得好, 百闻不如一….. aiya, better leave this part to 凡夫俗子, he is better with this….hahaha.

  30. Joyful,
    I can get it from yr friend Ms Lim and Eden can collect from me, if that will be easier form both of you.

  31. 谢谢 joyful ,

    请问:
    1)是不是用 fresh milk 养就可以了,而用 raw milk 养更好。
    2)一天饮用的份量多少。
    3)收成的 kefir 放在冰箱能耐几天。
    4)kefir 种每天都要用新的奶养吗?如果中途间断或好几天没有换奶会不会死啊?(我怕害死你的孙。。。:) )
    谢谢。

  32. hi cynthia & joyful …
    i am sure most of us are here to learn and share … so there is no such thing who is better than who la … so u need not be so modest … u know … overly modest becomes molest liao … lol …
    but i am very glad that this thread starts to attact readers … so at least ur effort is not wasted …

  33. Thomas,
    That is so sweet of you. That would be a perfect solution. I just spoke to Ms Lim and she requested that you call her before you drop by.

    Thank you so much. 🙂

    Eden, you are so blessed.

  34. Hi Cynthia,

    1)是的。用 fresh milk 养就可以了,如果用 raw milk 养更好。

    2)一天饮用的份量随人而异。开始半杯,然后才慢慢增加。

    3)收成的 kefir 放在冰箱能耐5-6天吧。它会越来越酸,越来越有气泡,也会含少许酒精。我的 kefir 最多收2天就喝完了,所以没有察觉到有酒精。

    4)kefir 种每天都要用新的奶养。 如果中途间断,你可以把奶加入kefir 种,收藏在冰箱,一个星期后才收成, 然后再加入新的奶。

    我的kefir 孙可没那么容易死呢,先看看谁是它的婆婆。。。哈哈。。。

  35. After reading Joyfull & 凡夫俗子post up i like eaten a heart stabiliser (定心丸)
    When i got home, i can see the curd n whey well separated…Pa, Ma, 我得左啦 🙂 !
    The happiness is really cannot be described.
    I strained the emulsion, i got nearly 400ml of grians ! really 子孙满堂 le, hahaha. Thomas, Joyfull n 凡夫俗子 thank you thank you so much.
    Cynthia, and those who interested, please start doing, you will sure like it.
    I had my first cup, tasted sour n with some vineger taste. Is it the taste should be?

  36. Further to Cynthia’s Q re which type of milk to use (if you could not get good quality raw milk).

    For Pasteurised milk (those kept in the fridge of supermarkets),
    I have tried and find these ok

    – Dutch Lady Fresh milk (the green labelled)–good
    – Farmhouse Australian milk — good but expensive
    – Tesco house brand fresh milk — cheap and good
    – Good Day fresh milk — ok
    – Giant house brand fresh milk — ok

    Avoid using,
    – HL low lactose milk (no no, it’s like putting the bacteria on a slimming diet,haha)
    – any UHT milk (dead milk)
    – low fat milk (so so but can lah)

    Some day, when the weather was extremely hot, I would let it ferment on the counter top for 12 hrs (esp. when you see it separating into whey very fast) and keep it in the fridge for 12hrs before harvest.

    The best way to check when to harvest is by taste. You taste it and see if it is sour, very sour or too sour. Again, the more sour it is, the higher its bacteria count. Too sour is also no good for the growth of the grains. Experiment with the different timing and you will get the right consistency eventually.

    Try not to let it separate into too much whey, it will be too sour then. When you see pockets of whey in the curd, it should be ready.

    The kefir grains will grow differently with different milk types. When you change the brand of milk too often, sometimes it will give you an “off taste”. So when you are happy with one brand, stick to it.

    Happy Kefiring !!

    ps: I have decided to write this in English. To type Chinese, 一粒一粒打呢, 我会打到天亮… 哈哈哈…. 真佩服凡夫俗子的能耐力.

  37. Hi joyful ,

    不好意思,再请问为什么在服用antibiotics (抗生素)期间不宜服kefir,它会解antibiotics 的药性吗?谢谢。
    因为病的关系我必须长期(5年)服贺尔蒙药,我问过我的主治医生但他不知道什么是kefir 。。。

  38. hi cynthia …
    1) 其实用什么奶水都可以 。。。 不过从营养角度来看 。。。 当然raw milk会比较好了 。。。 因为生奶拥有奶水原有的酵素可以化解奶水中的淀粉质,脂肪和蛋白质 。。。
    2) 和平时喝的奶水没有两样,喝多少都不成问题 。。。 看自己的喜好 。。。我是早晚上一杯 。。。 早上可以补充精力 。。。晚上能让你睡的香又沉
    3) 发酵1 liter的奶水只够你喝两三天 。。。 所以这不是大问题 。。。 在理论上来说kefir是不会坏的 。。。 这是几千年前游牧民族用来保存奶水的方法 。。。 不过它会越来越酸 。。酒味较浓 。。。
    4) 养在冰箱里 。。。 一个星期加些奶水就可以 。。。 kefir bb的生命力蛮强的 。。。 你放心啦 。。。 它肯定能为你生个子孙满堂 。。。 哈哈 。。。

  39. hi eden …
    welcome to the KFC … hahaha … dont worry … it is a health club … it stands for Kefir Fraternity Club …
    if we wanna appoint a president … of course … the most appropriate candidate is joyful … the writer of this thread … hahaha … the vice president … for sure … geos to mr enzymo lo, the owner of this blog …
    i ??? as usual … kepoh a bit here and there lo … lol …

  40. hi 叶 。。。
    ya … it sure tastes sour … how sour all depends on how much grains u use and how long u let it to ferment …
    give it a few try … by varing the amount of grains and time … u will get the taste that u like most …
    u may add in some fruit / juice … n run it thru a blendder … the taste is heavenly … mango and banana are pretty good choice …

  41. Hi Cynthia,

    About the antibiotics. We do not know who fight against who in your guts. So let the antiobiotics sapu all, good and bad, then put back the good bacteria.

    Go to Dom’s site and look for the yeast and bacteria strains contained in kefir, show to your doc that this is the friendly bacteria in kefir and see what he says. I won’t be surprised he will tell you NOT to take. Anything they do not know or don’t want to know, normally they will advise against it.

    To me, if you want to try, start with small amount, say a few spoons and test the reaction. Your body will tell you if you listen to it.

  42. hi all, i am truly so blessed 🙂
    super excited, can’t wait to see my baby kefir arriving to my ‘family’. thanks Enzymo for helping up. Because of you, i have started my garbage enzyme project yesterday. Looking forwards to harvest the result after next 3 months 😉

    BTW, as i recalled through the blog, seems like there is no way to keep this kefir unless we cultivate and ‘feed’ it with milk every alternate day. Truly like keeping another BB 😀
    oh, will the kefir grain die if we put it too long in the same milk? will it kill itself in the fermentation process? Like it become too sour and it xxx?

  43. hi cynthia …
    我也有一个亲人和你一样,因为病的关系必须长期(5年)服贺尔蒙药 。。。
    不过她的主治医生知道什么是kefir 。。。也许是个女医生 。。。 比较好学 。。。 所以除了医学,她可能对营养学也有些常识 。。。
    我曾经读过一本书 : 不用让不懂营养学的医生误导你 。。。 大众书局有这本书,你不妨买来阅读 。。。
    我这个亲人也在喝酵素和kefir 。。。 不过她没有同时服药和喝酵素/kefir 。。。 通常都是相隔前或后两个小时 。。。
    你也可以 google “kefir and antibiotic” 。。。 里面有些相关的知料 供你参考 。。。
    我不是医生 。。。 也不是营养家 。。。 最主要还是你自己觉得安心 。。。 因为有些时候心理治疗胜于身理治疗也 。。。

  44. hi eden …
    ya … u are quite right that looking after kefir grains is not very different from looking after bb … they need ur care, love and attention … not just milk only … they may be naughty in their own way … but they will not bother u … and they always reciprocate your kindness in return for good health … hahaha …

    when u feel like taking a break … all u need to do is to keep the grains in a container … add in some milk … n keep it in the fridge …

    after a week … u can strain the kefir … it is safe to drink the milk … add in fresh milk n put back it the fridge again … easy as 123 …

    kefir grains are very robust n hardy … full of lives … so u need not worry that they will die … instead they will breed u hundred of sons and thousand of grandchildren in no time … lol …

  45. Hi joyful, 凡夫俗子 & enzymoJ君,

    真的非常谢谢你们给的资料和帮助,由衷的感谢. 我在JB请问能跟你们要些 kefir grains 吗?由我开始, 我也很想从我这里开始把如此美好的益菌带给亲朋戚友.

  46. Hi Eden,

    Leaving the grains too long (longer than say 1 week outside the fridge) in the same milk will turn the whole environment too acidic for the grains. The grains will disintegrate eventually into millions of pieces. I call this act “neglect”.

    I have mentioned above (my reply to Cynthia) re how to have a break. Oh, maybe you can’t read Chinese huh?

    Cover the grains in milk with 50-50 grain-milk ratio, put the lid on your glass jar. Leave it in fridge for 1 week (to nap). After 1 week, you have a ready to strain kefir. After straining, add new milk and let it brew on counter top (to wake the fella up for work lah basically). This is how I back-up my grains.

    The active grains on the counter top would then go into the fridge for a rest and the shift work goes on in a cycle, see the picture?

    You can feed the grains coconut milk, soya milk, nut milk, goat’s milk, horse’s milk etc apart from cow’s milk.

    I kefirised coconut milk, extracted the VCO and drank all the residue.
    I also trained the grains to make fruit juice kefir, making very nice fizzy probiotic juice.
    I made raw milk kefir cream cheese from milk kefir without adding rennet.
    You can also make KimChi and Sauerkraut with the grains too.
    Many things you can do with it…but Eden, one step at a time…start with cow’s milk first. When you get to know your grains better, you can have great fun with it.

  47. Cynthia,

    How can I say no to you when you have a heart of gold and not charcoal. I have grains recipients in certain towns (West and East M’sia) but not in JB yet. It’ll be nice to have my first grain recipient in JB as that would facilitate the S’porean too.

    I will find ways for you to get it. 🙂

    Thomas, email address ? Kamsiah.

    ps: I will be offline today till very late at night, meanwhile our Super President of KFC
    凡夫俗子 will take ALL Questions pertaining to Kefir…hehehe.

  48. O, before I go offline, one more thing…

    When you keep the grains in the fridge for too long ie 1 week after 1 week and 1 week and….. they will go too sound asleep, so much so that they may take a long time to wake up when you bring them out of the fridge.

    The waking up process will cause you wastages of milk (ie $$). When you bring them out of fridge and add milk to it, the milk may not curd after 24hrs. You need to strain it, throw away the milk, and add new milk (I call this “milk change”). Do the milk change process till you get curd and whey in milk and taste like your usual batch.

    Sometimes, it may take a good few days. So, don’t let them sleep too long. Too long in the fridge will throw the yeast + bacteria out of balance, and that is no good.

    Also, use only GLASS container, ok.

  49. hi cynthia …
    我住在KL 。。。 不过我有个朋友是当sales的 。。。 他常常有去JB那里 。。。
    如果你真有心要尝试发酵kefir的话 。。。 我可以拜托拿些kefir grains给你 。。。

  50. Hi joyful , 凡夫俗子, enzymoJ君,

    真麻烦你们了,我先去买用具等你们的 grains,你们那位比较方便 。。。谢谢。(请让我支付任何费用好吗,不然我很不好意思。。。)

  51. hi cynthia
    搞掂 。。。。
    我的朋友july 13会到JB 。。。他通常都会去service watson stores 。。。 你看那间方便你 。。。给我知道 。。。 再看看怎样联系你 。。。
    不用不好意思啦 。。。 哈哈 。。。 你只要把这爱的种子继续散发出去 。。。 就是对我们最好的回报了 。。。

  52. 我住 在 SERI KEMBANGAN 我 想 试发酵 KEFIR. 你们 那一位方便 给 或 jual 一点GRAINS 给 我.
    thank you very much.

  53. hi lee 。。。
    你住在霹雳那里 ???

    Hi new kawan 。。。
    没问题 。。。 seri kembangan 好办 。。。可以安排在 seri kembangan jj as pick up point 。。。

    mr enzymo … u may give lee n new kawan my email contact so that we can take it up from there … thanks mate …

  54. Hi 凡夫俗子,
    “不用不好意思啦 。。。 哈哈 。。。 你只要把这爱的种子继续散发出去 。。。 就是对我们最好的回报了 。。。” ~~ 这是当然只要我做得到 🙂

    请你给我你的 e-mail address 好吗? (joyful 应该有 forward 我的 email 给你). 谢谢.

  55. Hi all,

    I didn’t make it very clear about the reason why I suggest covering the jar with cloth.

    The fermentation produces CO2 gas (due to yeast activity) and the lactose in milk will be converted into lactic acid and alcohol. So covering the jar with cloth will let the gas out and reduce the alcohol content to almost zero. (we are not afraid of the invasion of bad bacteria here because the grains will “eat” them up…..unlike our diy enzyme, we must use sugar to suppress the bad bacteria).

    If you put the lid on, you will get a fizzy milk kefir with a slight amount of alcohol after 24hrs. Make sure you do not fill the jar more than 2/3 full with fresh milk and kefir grains due to pressure created during fermentation. It may explode on you especially when you shake the jar. When you remove the lid, and … fsszzzzz….you will get a slightly sparkly-kefir.

    ps: Thomas ah, can please translate into Chinese or not, if not, I no need to sleep liao.
    thanks ya. 🙂

  56. joyful & 凡夫俗子,
    By sealing the jar or lid slightly ajar or covering with cloth , we actually controlling the amount of oxygen uses in the kefir fermentation. Yeast fermentation process will be difference in these 3 difference condition, the same goes to the bacteria. What your take on this aerobic and anaerobic condition ? Did you come across any article from Dom’s ? Please share wit me.

  57. Thomas,

    Interesting Q you have.

    I could not recall any explicit mention of Aerobic and Anaerobic activities in Dom’ site except for once. He said this,

    “Traditional kefir grains of Caucasus is a fascinating natural mother-culture. Each granular body is formed through the effort of a dynamic, or symbiotic relationship shared among the complex microflora [bacteria and yeast], which render an irregular sheath, composed of protein, polysaccharide and lipid complex. The irregular fashioned sheath forms as a multiple irregular body with many lobules to create each kefir grain.”

    “Short and long rod-shaped bacteria and yeast, formed separate colonies both on the outside and inside of the grain. Internally, filaments of encapsulated cells, extending outwardly from a population of long rod-shaped bacteria.

    One microorganism in particular, Lb. kefiranofaciens is found to be responsible for the formation of the soluble polysaccharide, Kefiran. The research suggests that the encapsulated bacteria may be responsible for the propagation of kefir grains.

    The reason for this conclusion seems to be because propagation of the grains will not occur [non-propagable grains] in the absence of Lb. kefiranofaciens, which produces kefiran in the centre of the grain, under anaerobic conditions and in the presence of ethanol alcohol.”

    Now, my take is this, I think both activities co-exist. The bacteria colonies on the outside of grains needs O2 and they perform the aerobic and they float to grab O2. Certain strain of yeast ie. Lb. kefiranofaciens dwells inside the grains performs Anaerobic as they do not need O2.

    Aerobic produces CO2 but Anaerobic gives out Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S) which contributes to a yeasty or rotten egg smells.

    I discover that when I covered the jar with cloth, the smell of my kefir was not yeasty most of the time (CO2 is odorless) but when I put a close lid, the yeasty smell dominated (H2S smells a bit yuck) and the kefir was also more fizzy.

    The bacteria thrives when there is ample O2 (cover with cloth), but when O2 level drops (closed lid) the Anaerobic yeast in the center of grains becomes more active thus producing higher level of alcohol as the byproduct.

    Thomas, this is just my superficial understanding as I am not a microbiologist to be able to digest everything I read. My understanding is only based on my observation of the behavior of my kefir babies…hahaha.

    Hope what I said make sense, h…mm.

  58. ya … dom also suggested that if we want a more yeasty … fizzy and alcoholic kefir … we may keep the kefir in a air-tight lock bottle … and to further cut off the O2 we may add in a spoonful of olive oil …

  59. joyfu,
    Thanks for the input.
    I will try to cover up the lid slightly to get a difference taste, bcos some of the family members do not like the current taste.

  60. Thomas,

    Yes, one should have fun with it, try out different ways to get to what you like.

    Does your kefir taste cheesy? Or too sour ? Or too thick ? Pasteurised milk will give you very thick kefir. And if you use different brands of milk (diff from the donor’s milk brand), it may give you off-taste for a few batches.

    Try taste it at different timing during the fermentation also will help to establish your preference.

    Placing the jar next to strong aroma thing will cause your kefir to attract that aroma. So don’t place it next to shoe rack..hahaha.

  61. When you have the kefir grains, it opens up a whole world of possibilities…..

    Please visit the homemade Virgin Coconut Oil thread to see some kefir recipes.

    Caution: always use spare grains to experiment and remember to keep backup grains. I try to encourage individuals to care for their grains as though there is no where else they can get it back.

  62. sy …
    i have emailed u …
    if u are interested to get back the grains … plse get in touch to work out an arrangement for the pick up …
    in our kfc (kefir fraternity club) … we don sell but give out free …

  63. hmm … i think i have spoilt taste buds … i usually add something to my kefir …
    my favourite additions are mango or banana … they will turn out more like mango / banana kefir milk shake … sinful i know … i may add in a scoop of vanilla ice-cream … (hahaha … i know joyful must be frowning with a stern look …. )

    other than fresh fruits … on lazy days … i may just add in a spoonful of fruit jam to my kefir … my favourites are wild blue berry … black berry … craneberry … ginger marmalade …

  64. Thomas,

    How could I miss out this very important byproduct of the aerobic activities in Kefir?

    Hydrogen Peroxide !! One of the contributing factors to the antimicrobial (anti-viral, antibacterial, and anti-fungal) activity of kefir.

    Our body actually makes hydrogen peroxide to fight infection and for our immune system to function correctly. Our white blood cells produce hydrogen peroxide as the first line of defense against toxins, parasites, bacteria, viruses and yeast.

    A research paper show this stunning stat:
    In 10ml of a good quality kefir, it contains 10 billion lactococci, 8b leuconostocs, 8b thermophillic lactobacilli, 5b yeasts and 5b acetic acid bacteria. So if we do our maths, in a 100ml glass of kefir, wow !!

  65. Aiyo 凡夫俗子,

    Why must I frown? I love ice cream !! Often, I fell into it without second thought, but I try la, try to always think twice. To know is easy but to apply, it takes self control.

    Once in a while, to give our children or ourselves a treat is no big deal la. But, if they ask for it everyday, then they willl get my stern look… for sure.

  66. hi everyone …
    came acroos this article online … just wanna share with u guys …

    Kefir to boost immune system agains A(H1N1) virus!
    Latest news from Kefir Power Probiotics
    06/14/2009
    Are you worried about the A(H1N1) virus bannering in the headlines? Well… everyone should be. But did you know that the best defense against all these flu viruses are our very own immune system?

    Kefir is a very nutritious food that boosts our immune system. Not only that, kefir works mightily down into the cellular level helping our cells regenerate into healthy ones. Kefir helps the repair of damaged tissues! Kefir is an ancient daily food of the very healthy people living near the mountains of Caucasus in Eastern Europe. These group of people are one of the healthiest in the planet earth. Thanks to kefir

  67. After a few requests we received for kefir grains, we feel that to make communication more efficient, we would like those who request for grains to email us at kefirbaby@yahoo.com

    We would like Thomas, the blog owner, to have easier life eating his Kefir Apom from Eden…. 🙂

  68. thanks so much for the grains! received it from 凡夫俗子 on Sunday.

    I’ve harvested the 1st jar n have jz consumed it. A whole lot of goodness in it 🙂

    Am really glad to be consuming it again after halting for a period of time.

    Hopefully it will grow healthily n won’t go kaputt. hehe

    oh there’s one question after reading Dom’s site.

    should we rinse the kefir grains after straining?

  69. Excellent Q you have SY,

    There isn’t a need to rinse your grains after straining. Rinsing the grains would disturb the microflora within and throw the grains off balance.

    Having said so, you may rinse it if your kefir is
    1. contaminated or
    2. when it is giving you an off-taste or
    3. when it is becoming yeasty (smells like blue cheese, basically smells yeast la)

    IMPT NOTE: When you rinse your grains, do not use tap water as it contains chlorine and chlorine may kill the grains. Use filtered purified water instead.

    When you think your grains have gone kaput, the chances are, they have not. Please get in touch with us and don’t throw them away. I had revived grains which were thought to be dead… and they are now producing offsprings. 🙂

  70. hi sy …

    u r most welcome … the most important thing is u can feel the goodness in it …

    i dont usually rinse the grains after straining … i do it only once in abt every 2 weeks when the grains are over flowing … taking up too much space in my fridge …. usually the quantity will reduce to almost half of its orginal size after rinsing …

    no worry la … kefir grains are robust n hardy… they don usually go kaputt so easily … wat they need is the milk feed and most important ur loving cares …

  71. Thanks for answering, Joyful & 凡夫俗子! =)

    Ah, so i should NOT wash them unnecessarily 🙂 because i used to wash it every time after straining when i got it from dad’s fren last time. we were advised to, but dunno what’s d purpose 🙂 I still have the habit of washing it these 2 days. i should stop washing it from tmr onwards, unless it’s as mentioned that it’s contaminated ,overproducing or changing taste 🙂

    I did observe some changes in my immune system when i consumed it previously for about half a year. consuming enzyme itself didn’t help much as i was getting sick every 3 months. Thus, i should think with the combination of enzyme and kefir, it would certainly be better 🙂

    Okay sure, Joyful & 凡夫俗子, if anything happens to my grains, will ask u all experts here 🙂 touch wood anyway 😀

  72. 刚刚收成发酵了18小时的kefir(谢谢凡夫俗子), 请问:

    1) 他的味道酸酸的,有点酒味,cheese味很浓,有点油, 成功吗?
    2) 过滤时不容易必须用汤匙搅动, kefir 才能流得快点, 可以吗?
    3) 过滤后发现了一块块像白木耳的 kefir grains, 那白白油油像豆付花的是什么?
    4) 过滤后的 kefir grains 应该和那白白油油像豆付花的一起再放入玻璃瓶中加奶发酵吗?
    5) 如果把 kefir 放在冰箱发酵拉长收成天数(比如2~3天才收成), 可以吗?

    谢谢.

  73. 对不起, 再请问 kefir 能够加在热或温饮中吗? 我的孩子不能接受它的味道我想加在他的牛奶中. 谢谢.

  74. 恭喜你啦 。。。 你掂左 。。。 听的懂广东话吗 ???

    1. 一切正常 。。。 它的口味是酸酸的 。。。 像酸奶 。。。 香浓的cheese味道 。。。 是有点酒精 。。。通常不超过0.5% (比酵素低) 。。。 除非你把罐口盖的紧紧的 。。。 酒精会比较高 。。。

    2. 是可以用汤匙搅动 。。。 没问题 。。。建议你买个洞口比较大的过滤具 。。。

    3. 像白木耳的东西就是kefir grain 。。。 要养一段时间才能有这么大的kefir grains 。。。 特地给你看看它的庐山真面目 。。。 一笑 。。。白白油油像豆付花是curd 。。。 奶乳酪 。。。

    4. 对的 。。。 kefir grains n curd 就一起放入玻璃瓶中加奶再次发酵 。。。

    5. 如果你不打算在外,而要放在冰箱里发酵 。。。 你可以一个星期后才收成 。。。

    joyful … anything to add ???

  75. cynthia …

    可以,不过温度不能超过47C 。。。 因为kefi含有益菌和酵素 。。。 高温会“杀”死他们 。。。

    给孩子们喝要多样化 。。。比如你可以加香蕉,芒果 。。。 打出来的效果好像奶昔(milk shake) 。。。 还可以加一 sccop 的 vanilla ice cream 就更美味了 。。。

    你也可以加果汁 。。。 蜜糖 。。。 ribena 。。。 果酱一起搅拌 。。。 味道好像 lassi / vitagen 之类的饮料 。。。 我的小侄儿们就很喜欢 。。。

  76. E..em,

    1. your kefir smells alcohol because it had been on a long journey, the acetic acid bacteria becomes extra active, thus throwing your grains a bit off balance. The same applies to the cheesy smells, the yeast is also a bit off balance. It could be due to the container being sealed.

    Not to worry, after a few more batches, it should find its balance very soon. If it still behaves the same, raise the Q again.
    Kefir grains are very smart, just like their owners…. hahaha.

    4. Stir well before you strain to mix up the curd and whey (yellow clear liquid). If you stir with spoon when you strain, you should not see curd any more. So, you would only get grains in your strainer. By right, you don’t return curd back to the bottle, curd is kefir and you drink it.

    5. I have expressed my views on the fridge method in my previous post. Please refer 七月 3, 2009.

    ps: sorry Cynthia, I need to use English, if not I can’t go for dinner liao..hehehe…

  77. Hi Cynthia,

    If you add kefir to hot water, it’s the same as making apom, baking bread with kefir, the probiotic benefit is zero. But you will still get the nutrition of a pre-digested milk, good for digestion and good for people with lactose intolerance.

    Try other recipes to suit your child’s taste or use my method, train your child’s taste bud, hahaha… tough one.

    I have emailed you an image of how the kefir grains should look like after straining.

  78. Thanks 凡夫俗子 & joyful ,

    Now i have a more clear picture of what is kefir drinks and what is suppose to be drinked by us after the kefir grains fermented, is actually the sour milk liquid + the curd = our nutritious kefir , right ? 🙂

    My precious son is very picky since he born, trust me I never spoilt his taste buds, he just know how to choice his favour foods / drinks since baby (this make me only able to breastbreed him twice… the fellow twist his face like drinking poison… hahaha), he don’t like vitg / yogurt drink / fruit juice / soda drinks (susahlah betul). I’ll add to his milk and control the milk temperature below 40*C, I hope is would not kill the probiotic…

    p/s : thanks joyful for your time, don’t worry I have prepared a dictionary beside me liao… 🙂

  79. Yeah, my bf also find the taste of plain kefir weird. so what i did was like what 凡夫俗子 mentioned, i poured it into the blender and blend with some fruits. turned out good and he finds it quite good. well, at least i found a way to have him try,cos i know it’s good for health. somemore, movement in his intestine is very very slow.. hehe

    Finally, i made myself not to wash the grains anymore after straining this morning =) i was jz wondering, the grains ‘reproduce’ very actively and quickly, can i eat the grains together with the kefir when i have excessive grains? can i eat them without washing the grains or do i hv to wash them first? cos as mentioned above, it’s not good to let them sleep too long in the fridge, and i’ve yet to find ppl who is interested in this. it’s such a waste to throw them away.

  80. Joyful, read one of ur posts up there regarding probiotics & antibiotics =) Meaningful indeed. Probiotics–for life; antibiotics–going against life =)

    U mentioned that when u get throat infection, u double the intake of kefir. was it effective n did d sore throat go away quickly without medication?

  81. SY my dear,

    If you have excess grains, please throw them …. oops I haven’t quite finished yet, I mean throw them into your stomache…hehe. Seriously, kefir grains is one the “most” powerful probiotics you can find, surpasses the kefir drink. Please eat them esp if one is down with food poisoning presented with diarhea.

    Do you know that the kefiran (the slimy sticky thing found in the grains) has anti-inflamatory properties in it ?

    But, make sure you keep back up grains before you eat any of them ok.

    If you find that it’s too chewy, blend them together with the strained kefir + fruits etc for a powerful immune booster shot.

    And also, please remove these words “washing” “rinsing” or some may call it “bathing” from your kefir vocabulary…. can ? hahaha. They may be bacteria, but they are clean bac, haha. Those words are for 911 rescue works…

    ps: oh no, I’m sounding like 90yo grandma again, what did I eat wrong for lunch??

  82. Oh my dear, I forgot about the other Q , 90yo liao,

    If you consume Kefir daily, your chances of contracting cold, flu and throat infection is much lower, much much lower. And if you are infected, the recovery will be faster eventually, without medication, that’s my experience now.

    But I do allow my body time to fight through it. And the time to recover will get shorter and shorter with each infection. It’s a journey to get our body do its job properly… to some it may take longer.

    You need to work with your own body gradually and you CAN regain your health.

    ps: you may add ground flax seeds or psyllium husk to kefir for your bf. Friendly bac thrives in the presence of fiber. Try it and tell me the results 🙂

  83. Thanks Joyful!

    Yes i truly believe the power of kefir in boosting our immune system. 🙂 as i mentioned earlier, i consumed kefir for half a year before the milk contamination matter arised. my immune system was much better that time. believe it or not, after i stopped consuming kefir, i fell sick every 3 months. the most recent one was last weekend before meeting 凡夫俗子. even when i met him up, i was still not really well.

    Haha okay, i’ll make sure i throw them all—into my tummy when i have excessive grains! 🙂 but i think i need to blend it, looks slimy to me. 🙂 it has anti-inflammatory effect? oh good, i gonna add in to my bf’s kefir tonight cos he’s having sore throat. but u know what, he drank about 600ml kefir blended with fruits last night after complaining that he has a sore throat. he told me just now noon time that his sore throat is gone. well, kefir’s benefit, i suppose so? I’ll try to add in psyllium husk/ flax seeds like what u mentioned, but gotta find them first. psyllium husk i know hai-o sells it, but where can i find flax seeds? will give it a try n let u know 😉 for the time being, i’ll blend d kefir with fruits for him. anyway yesterday was his 1st consumption 🙂

  84. SY,
    Any organic shop carries flax seeds and psyllium husk. Make sure you grind the flax seed ya, if not you can’t digest properly and it will come out the other end as it is. O, try to get the golden flax if you can. If not the brown flax also can la.

    I add ground flax, black sesame seeds, sunflower and pumpkin seeds in my daily wholemeal bread loaf and it’s nice, nutty flavor.

    Glad that kefir is working well for both of you…powerful stuff !!

  85. hi sy …

    i know both enzyme and kefir are no doubt by any means a miracle cure to illnesses … but i strongly believe that they can uplift our immune system against illnesses …

    i have started taking enzyme since last aug and kefir since may this year …. and come aug this year … i m going to achieve 0 mc for the last 12 mths … (but no reward from my boss la … hahaha …) ….

    b4 i started these programs … though may not be the 1st … but i will ultimately get infected when my workmates start to cough / sneeze in the office …. i handle cough very badly … and it always take me month b4 i can recover from the cough …

    nowadays … every time my workmates cough / sneeze … i will run to the pantry for a spoonful of enzyme … hahaha … it works … believe me ….

  86. Joyful,

    Thanks~ if you didn’t mention to me, i wouldn’t know that flax seed needs to be grinded before consuming 🙂

    wow, u practise a very healthy diet! i’m also picking up cos i believe we are what we eat. health must be taken care of from young n it must be an ongoing process 🙂

    will get d psyllium husk/ flax seeds this weekend! 🙂

    oh by d way, i switched from Dutch Lady fresh milk (in green) to Tesco in-house brand fresh milk. will c d results tmr 🙂 yes u’re right, it’s cheaper (by about RM1.30 each) compared to DL.

  87. Hi Joyfull,
    I had a clearer picture today only : the sour milk liquid + the curd = our nutritious kefir (very char)
    I wonder i did it right…I always use put back the grains+curd to reprocess again.

    The big kefir grain must be present each time process ?
    Will grains grow in the curd ?
    And you mention spare grains, do u mean we cut the one that we received and safe keep them or give them away ?

  88. SY,
    If you know the story of my past ill health, you’ll understand why I am left with little choice but to be careful with food. In fact, I am still in the journey and for the sake of my family, I must take hold of whatever that is within my control.

    You’re right that healthy diet starts from young. There isn’t a need to teach our children to eat junk food, sweet stuff, they naturally do but the other way round is so tough. It took me extra effort to train my girls to reach a point where they can now drink soya drink or taufu fa without sugar, plain kefir, herbal tea or vegetable juice without sugar etc. Given a choice, they will still like to go for KFC (the chic lah) McD or any outside food, so I am still in the journey.

    And let’s help each other along that journey of health… together we can win the battle !! 🙂

  89. Hi 叶,
    Hey long time no hear… it’s good to hear from you again.

    Oh no, I didn’t do a good job briefing 凡夫俗子 the Mr Nice. No wonder everybody is saying their grains are growing so much, for once I thought there is something wrong with mine, haha. Now I know those are curd + grains lah.

    Ok, when you strain, please stir with spoon and scrape the bottom of strainer to ease the flow. You can press lightly and stir to drain maximum kefir out.

    Q: I wonder i did it right…I always use put back the grains+curd to reprocess again.
    > no, don’t put curd back, it will make your next batch of kefir very sour until you have to squeeze your eye tight when you drink it.

    Q: The big kefir grain must be present each time process ?
    >Big grains small grains are all good grains, so you just measure the correct amount of grains with spoon for each brew.

    Q: Will grains grow in the curd ?
    > they grow with milk feed, not curd. Milk becomes Curd when the grains has eaten, sudah kenyang.

    Q: And you mention spare grains, do u mean we cut the one that we received and safe keep them or give them away ?
    > Spare grains means after you measure the usual amount of grains for new brew, what’s left behind is your spare. Please don’t cut them, you scoop them 🙂 some may add “gently scoop”. You may keep some grains for backup, the rest you can give away or eat it.

    If any of you are interested to see the image of the grains after straining, drop me a line in kefirbaby@yahoo.com I’ll email you the pix.

  90. Someone asked me today if she needs to wash the bottle for each new brew.

    Ans: wash and dry it but no need to sun it or be fussy about the bottle.
    Some people only wash once in a week but I think it’s a bit geli lah, gross !! But for the storage bottle in the fridge where I keep the strained kefir, I wash only once in a few days. I keep adding in new batches into it.

    TIPS of the DAY:
    If you keep the “strained” kefir for an additional day (outside or inside fridge) with the lid on, you will get an increase in the nutrients and vitamins eg.Vit B, folic acid etc by almost 100% and the lactose (milk sugar) down further. So it is a good practice to add new kefir into the old one. This is called Double Ripening.

  91. Hahaha Joyfull, thanks for your explaination, now i know why my kefir tasted so so so sour la…
    and Joyfull, is no fault of 凡夫俗子, he helped a lot, the only thing is i always think too much and get myself confuse 😦

  92. No lah 叶,

    How could I blame 凡夫俗子 ? He has been so kind and if it wasn’t him, kefir won’t appear in this place. It was me who did not make it clear to him in the first place, I assumed too much.

    Good la, now it all cleared up…hahaha.

  93. Joyful, yes i think we’ll appreciate our health more after going thru some barriers. Yeah i know it’s tough, esp wt kids, but i think u can make it. It’s already quite an achievement for ur daughters to drink juices without sugar/honey, plain kefir and so on. well, they’re still kids anyway so i think the temptation of having outside food will still be there. once in a while should be alright 🙂 Take care n i’m sure ur health will improve n will sustain after that!

    Oh by d way, can u please email me the photo of grains after straining? just to make sure 🙂 thanks ya! singyuing@gmail.com

  94. 凡夫俗子,

    yes i agree. that’s y i was desperately goggling for ‘kefir grains in malaysia’ the other day. n i think i was lucky enough to come by this site 🙂

    when we experience it ourselves, it is believing. but for d enzyme, i’m taking d one with 1:3:10 formula. just like eco-enzyme but it’s for consumption.

    with these 2 stuff, hopefully i won’t fall sick so frequently anymore 🙂 once in 3 months is considered too frequent for me, haha.

  95. SY,
    Emailed liao.

    Thanks for your encouragement. I think not only kids, adults would be tempted also hahaha…

    I am experimenting a sinful recipe which I will attempt to remove some health robbers away from it. When I am satisfied, I’ll share with all you kefir lovers. 🙂

  96. Are you kidding me ?? Kids only ? Adults also like it le … I speak for myself lah, at least …. haha.

    Hey, weekend homework is good for family bonding. I am a chronic workaholic, “home”work, “house”work, “work”work, “any”work, I sapu all…. hahaha.

  97. I speak for myself also cos I don’t take sweet & cold food/drink but you are right , most adults will also like it. But once in while, why not….enjoy.

  98. aha … u r the devil in disguise …
    but i will submit to the seduction of all those mouth watering kefir delights … hahaha …
    i will cough out watever excuses i need to try them out … lol …
    thanks a million … joyfyl …

  99. wow…Joyful, interesting recipe 😉 i shall give it a try nx weekend! this is so cool 🙂

    凡夫俗子, ur cucu-cicit are growing. but i shall email u all the photos of what i get after sieving. it’s sticky one wor, should it be that way? n it’s slightly different from what Joyful sent me earlier in d email. Joyful, ur grains 一粒一粒的,my grains 黏在一起的. y is that so? is it becos mine is still ‘young’ n not matured yet? =)

    i can keep in d fridge n take it out a night before right? cos i do not wanna hv cold drinks in d morning. i realise it has more gas after keeping in d fridge for a day or two , n also even after bringing them out overnight. i’m enjoying it to d fullest, everyday! 🙂

  100. No lah SY, I am feeding the fellas raw milk ma. If you use pasteurized milk, the end results will be thicker. When you strain, stir a bit harder, just a bit, not too much ok.

    If you are concerned, send us the pix. I can tell you when I see them. Then at least we won’t miss the little fellas so much.

    But, SY, you are doing well lah… I am happy for you 🙂

  101. O, SY, forgot about the “gas” Q…. too sleepy liao.

    I think the fizzy, effervescent kefir you obtained after storing it in the fridge was due to the fact that you placed the lid on and not so much of temperature factor. I have put forward my view in my previous post up there. Read through it again 🙂

  102. hi sy …

    hmmm … cant compared our grains to that of joyful’s la … she is an old hand (not in age la … lol … kefir has made her look 10 yrs younger than her age …) .. her grains are great great grandpa and grandma liao … so be patient n with our loving care … they will grow ….

    ya … i also not a cold-drinker … i always take a portion out … n leave it on the breakfast table for breakfast the next day … my style : 2 portions of room temperature kefir + 1 portion of fruit juice (from the fridge) ….

    see ya …

  103. Oh Joyful, u use raw milk to feed! no wonder lah, urs looks nicer, hehehe… yeah, mine is sticky type. i’ll capture next one or two days n email u all ya. 🙂 Oh okay, i’ll re-read the previous posts for the question bout the ‘gas’ existing in my kefir (paiseh…). Ya, i do press a little bit so that the curd dissolves but not too hard. needs a lot of patience even jz to strain d kefir grains! 🙂 i spend about 10min to get it done everyday 🙂 Joyful, my bf is taking kefir now ever since i took it from 凡夫俗子 n add fruits for him n he gets to clear his bowel everyday too. so glad lah, else he clears his bowel once in 2-3days. aiyo, i had a headache to help him too before this. ah, but i hvnt bought d psyllium husk n flax seeds yet. maybe nx weekend! =)

    凡夫俗子, so kefir should be a better option for those ppl using skincare products whc cost a fortune! since it can make us look younger~ LOL… but whatever it is, the perseverance to keep going is important to maintain good health in the long run. yeah, i also add in fruits (esp for my bf who prefers it with fruits) but most of d time i take plain kefir myself. i tried banana+some lemon+some honey. good combination =)

  104. Don’t forget joyful is an Enzyme lover too & plus her joyful character… I think she simply look 20 years younger than her age… hahaha…

  105. wow … cynthia is really good in giving out 高帽子le 。。。 真的是青出于蓝更胜于蓝 。。。我真的自叹不如 。。。
    joyful must be 飘到云霄外了 。。。 成了外星人, ET la 。。。 哈哈 … the best sleeping pills in town wont put her to sleep liao … lol …

    aha … sy … me too … feeding my grains with raw milk …

    if the banana kefir milkshake is doing well for ur bf … u may skip the psyllium husk la …cos once u have added the psyllium husk … u must drink it immediately … otherwise it will be like dringking glue ….

  106. ya … sy … forgot to share with u …

    i don use the nylon strainers … cos the holes are so small that it takes ages to strain the kefir …

    instead i use a plastic colander … those we usually use for vegetables … u can get a small round one for abt 90 sens …. it is much quicker and easier to strain kefir … hahaha … i m always the lazy one … looking for the most convenient …

  107. Haha 凡夫俗子, 要不要也送您一顶高帽 : “爱心奶爸” 🙂

    我也有想过用洗菜的小篮子, 但感觉那塑料遇到酸性的 kefir 好像不太安全食用, 所以在尼龙过滤器底部剪开些小孔也很方便过滤.

    从凡夫俗子那儿领养到 firfir, 两星期已大了一倍多, 原来 40g 现在已有 100g 了, 会不会太快? (怕给我撑得太涨了 🙂 )

  108. Wow, 凡夫俗子 & JOyful are using raw milk. but how’s d smell? will it be one kind e.g. nauseating? 🙂 where can i get raw milk in PJ? how much does it normally cost? is it cheaper too?

    凡夫俗子, yea lo it takes a century to strain d grains using nylon strainer. that’s y i mentioned earlier it needs lots of ‘patience’. haha… maybe will try getting a colander n c 😉 well if it’s practical, y not? also, using d nylon strainer i think will make my grains more sticky cos it’s difficult for d curd to get thru. what i normally do is i scoop d whey (cos it’s watery) that flows down to d container to d grains again to make it easier to flow. 😀

  109. hi … cynthia
    虽说你的firfir可能贪吃 。。。 不过我觉得是你的爱心让他们长的这么快 。。。他们可是很有灵性的喔 。。。会知恩图报 。。。
    还有如果你像joyful一样天天都在发酵kefir的话 。。。 那你的firfir肯定长的比别人的快又壮啦 。。。

  110. Erm, i will mix the whey n curd with chopstick n pour them thru the strainer.
    I did the same way as Cynthia, cut some small little holes for easier flowing, b’coz i take quite a long time on the straining process also as the drinks are quite thick.

    uuh Cynthia, u weight the little ones… mine did grow bigger, but i think not so heavy as yours.

    Cynthia : Haha 凡夫俗子, 要不要也送您一顶高帽 : “爱心奶爸”

  111. aha … u fellas must be rich ah ???
    so wasteful e … cutting holes through ur nylon strainer …. do u know … once cut … the holes will get bigger as days go by ???
    i started off using a nylon strainer too … n found it very slow la … so i bought a plastic colander … making the straining so much easier …
    hmmm … but anyway … so long u r happy … why not …. i don believe there is only one right way to do things … life, b in it … and b happy no worry …

    thanks yap & cynthia … for the coronation of “爱心奶爸” … lol …

  112. Thanks 凡夫俗子,

    对啊, 我天天都在发酵kefir, 还装成小瓶装让亲友试味道, 能接受的我才肯把我的心肝送出去. 🙂

    有个小发现: 把 kefir grains 平均排放在瓶子的底部才倒入奶水, 他会发得很美很平均. 奶水加入前先摇晃均匀也会让 kefir grains 发酵得更好. 🙂

  113. joyful 去了外星球几天, 那儿一点都不好玩. 回到来,看到 kefir lovers 个个都玩到很开心, 我很高兴.

    What’s more comforting is this, all of you are sharing your 发酵心得 here and you have made my day.

    爱心奶爸, 你开不开心??

    ps: I am a little busy now, when I am done, 我会卷土重来, 大闹一番, 哈哈…

  114. 哈哈,看来 cynthia and yap 的高帽子还厉害过火箭 。。。 真的把joyful送到外太空作 ET 去了 。。。
    haha … ET come home … we miss u …
    let ur horse come … 我们玩的起 。。。

    cynthia … i also read somewhere online that if we shake the bottle every now and then during fermentation … the kefir will be more fizzy … and the alcoholic % too will increase … 就好像蒙古的马奶酒一样 。。。

  115. Hi 叶,

    I weight them, photo them, take down the notes for diferrences timing harvest / ferment temperature / milk types that affect their taste & look … hahaha 吃饱闲着没事做… ya a bit worry they have grown too fast at 1st, but since my two sifu joyful n 凡夫俗子 have clarify to me they are ok and healthy… I am so release n happy. 🙂

  116. Cynthia,
    小孩不好当,kefir 也难逃.
    我觉得很好笑,昨天我回家就跟我的kefir们说:
    你看人家cynthia的长得那么好,你们也该学习…然后我发现,为何我像在教导小孩一样呢,还要去做比较(like make sure the kid must have achievement in school)
    真的好不应该哦,要像我们奶爸常说的应该用爱的教育. 自觉惭愧 😥

    你真不愧是个好妈妈!要向你看齐.

    Oh yes, SY, thanks for your posting. I did try the 洗米水 n sugar to do e-enzyme, can’t tahan the smell i discarded them.

    Joyful, don’t go so long… miss you

  117. ET 的耳朵有点耳鸣, 跑过来这里瞧瞧. 原来是你们在这儿呼唤 ET 回返.
    ET 不好当, 还是变回 joyful 比较好. Ok, so I’m back to planet earth.

    Hi 叶,
    You have no idea what you are receiving from me, right? You thought you have failed. Little do you know that you are one of the most successful kefir recipients I have ever had now.

    You have received a skill I called 妙手回春. I could easliy scoop up some new grains and pass it to you but I thought to myself, which is better for you? Therefore, I decided to let you learn the hard way which to me, the best way.

    Be patient and do as I told you, strictly. Then, watch your grains grow and watch yourself grow in confidence. Then, you will come back and tell us Joyful is right.

    The health benefits of kefir is enormous, but a lot more could be learned about life in the process of brewing and growing kefir if you are sensitive to pick it up.

    So, lift your head high and cheer up, 叶 😀

    ps: you are supposed to get back to me in 1 week, remember 😉 ?

  118. Cynthia,
    Joyful 手里的几套功夫你都领了七七八八啦, 可以当南部的 kefir 掌门人了… 哈哈. Congrats !!

    爱心奶爸,
    Joyful 的马儿现在很累, 睡饱后会放它过去, 才和你大闹一番 !!

    SY,
    Glad that your bf is regulated now, haha…

  119. Joyful,

    霎那间回来就给我这么大的compliments, 有点飘飘然哦.
    说真的, 我认为我还在安亲班,要学得还多的是.
    能走到这里, 还得感谢你的扶持, 奶爸,Cynthia and SY 无私的分享啊!

  120. Hi,

    I stumble across this blog, and what a pleasant surprise to find that Kefir is actually exist in Malaysia!

    I have a question to your expert, have you ever try to cultivate the kefir in soya milk? I read that it should work, but would like to know your experience, as I have lactose intolerence problem, and have been stopped drinking milk for years. The mere thought of drinking a cup of full cow milk (though a pre-digested one) really scare me.

    This is a wonderful blog, please keep it up.

  121. Nowaday, treatment for gastric is commonly given to eradicate H.Pylori bacteria (if tested positive). Many doctors would prescribe very heavy dosages of antibiotics (sometimes with a combination of a few strains) to kill H pylori but that to me, may do more harm than good.

    Low stomach acid seems to promote H Pylori infection. In fact, H. Pylori may be inhibited by raising stomach acid.

    Probiotic drinks like kefir is found to inhibit the growth of H Pylori to a certain extent. Therefore, it’ will help people with gastric and stomach ulcers. In addition, Kefir’s anti-inflammatory property will also help in reducing the inflammation of the stomach lining. You may drink kefir half an hour after meal for a start.

    Bromelain (found in pineapple juice or pineapple enzyme drinks) taken with/after meals is often beneficial because of its anti-inflammatory and pro-digestive properties. Raw crushed garlic is known to kill H Pylori also.

    So, if you combine these few measures, you should see improvement in your gastric situation.

  122. wow… so many posts after not ‘checking in’ for a few days! 🙂 Joyful, i’ve changed to using cloth which is more 通风 🙂 At first i changed to using cloths too, but i think it was quite thick and so it didn’t make any difference with covering my baby with the container cover 🙂 so i went to tesco to buy one which is more 通风. cos when i used the thick cloth, the whey i get still a lot. so i’ll c how tmr cos i’ve changed the cloth =) Yeah, my bf has been taking non-stop everyday for breakfast. Good thing. But i need to control the amount of whey, like u said, cos it’s quite sour. But i wanna harvest only after 24 hours, so trial n error is needed 🙂 Still monitoring, still monitoring =)

    叶,
    I’m jz a new learner here. I still have lots of room for improvement. But only when we share, we know whether we’re doing it correctly or not 🙂 I only knew i have several things to take note of after seeking help from the sifu(s) here =) Oh u tried that eco-enzyme? i didn’t try but i jz tried leaving the 洗米水 overnight, it smells weird so i didn’t bother to do that. hehe…

  123. hi new kawan …
    not quite sure abt ur gastric / ulcer problem condition …
    but i know some of us are lactose intolerant … ie our body is lacking of the enzyme, lactase to disgest the lactose in the milk … hence the milk gets fermented in our stomach … producing a lot gas which causes bloating … (haha … i m not a doctor … as a layman this is wat i understand that wld happen to a lactose intolerant person drinking milk …)
    however … once the milk has been fermented via kefir grains … the good baterias wld have predisgested the milk lactose … hence even those who are lactose intolerant can safely consume kefir …

  124. Hi New Kawan,

    I also a 胃痛的人, i drank my sour sour batch of kefir with empty stomach each morning and before sleep also no problem at all.

    No worry lar..

  125. Hi SC,

    I have soft spot for Kefir in my heart, some call it passion. By answering your Q does not imply that I am an expect ya… hahaha.

    Yes, one of my grains recipient (a vegetarian) tried brewing soy milk but the taste according to her is not nice, so she went back to milk. You can always try it. The same amount of grains ratio.

    Many lactose intolerant tried kefir milk with success. If you would like to try it, go slow for a start, a few spoons at a time then increase to a level you can tolerate.

  126. new kawan,

    Try to use glass container. I have shared extensively about grains storage in fridge up there. Read again.

    When you are still new in brewing kefir, try not to let your Kefir baby sleeps in the fridge. If they never wake up, you will have to send them to 叶….hahaha.

  127. thank you every body, l got one more question to ask,this 高血压,高胆固醇 , B型肝炎和鼻敏感(没天早上流鼻水,打喷嚏ha…chi..ha…chi)可以喝kefir 吗?ah…ya sorrylah banyak kawan banyak penyakit, semua mau try tapi takut ,semua kasi clear, nanti dia semua sihat.

  128. hi new kawan …

    i have posted a link on july 17 克非尔系列专题报导 … may be it can help to answer some of the questions u may have relating to kefir …

    like enzyme … i will prefer not to treat kefir as a miracle cure … i think it is more positive to take them as healthy probiotic beverages … than medicine … the improvement in health comes from within …

    no need to takut la … the worst thing that can happen in taking enzyme or kefir is no effect la … no advsere side effect one …. oh … may be u can get “lao-sai” … lol …

  129. New kawan, kawan baru,

    Bagus bagus, saya pun suka semua kasi clear kasi sihat…. jangan takut.

    Ah Dom 好象是C 型肝炎患者, 喝了kefir 就 under control 了. 去他那儿看看吧.

    高血压,高胆固醇呢, according to what I read, kefir helps. But, one must watch what you eat also. You can’t expect to clear your illnesses by drinking kefir and eat garbage food at the same time, right or not kawan baru?

    Ha chi ha chi… you must find out what causes the ha chi first…

  130. Hi SY,

    I also found a 24 hours routine for kefir harvest will be easier for our timing control, then we’ll just need to repeat the same things again at the same time everyday, easier to stay consistent.

    Malaysia weather is pretty hot, this make our kefit-grains ferment very fast, sometime it takes only 10 hours the kefir will become very wheysy & sour especially when using raw milk, it’ll be quite difficult to control the fermentation progress timing due to the quality of raw milk.

    I have tried out several methods & I think so far this is the best taste of kefir, for your reference :
    I keep the kefir in the fridge during day time & leave them stay on the table top during night time for 12~14 hours until next day then harvest.
    For example 8:00pm come back from work leave the kefir on the table top –> tomorrow morning 8:00am harvest before work, change milk keep in the fridge –> **repeat.
    If you found they have not fermented enough in the morning you can keep them back to the fridge & take out again when you back from work to continue fermentation till your wanted condition. 🙂

    p/s : The 通风问题 will not affect the whey condition, but only increase the gas and wine taste right ? sifu.

  131. Hello there, i happen to spot on this interesting blog on goodness of drinking kefir and keen to try it out. Could you advise where in JB can i purchase the Kefir grains? Look forward to hear from you. thanks alot!!

  132. All you kefir lovers,

    Kefir grains contain many strains of living organism. They evolve and adapt based on surrounding air, temperature, food (the milk varieties). They may compete with other living organisms already existed in the air and milk. They will either starve those other organisms (bad ones), or adopt them (the good ones) into their colonies.

    Basically, each kefir grains are different, especially in different household, or different geographical location. The strongest of them will adapt and survive.
    So, this explains why each of you are gettinmg different results even the methods are identical.

  133. aha … cynthia … this is the good time to show ur skill of sharing kefir with mary in jb …

    hahaha … it is time for u as the 南部掌门人 。。。 to go into action … start to spread of the grains of love … 一笑 。。。。

    mary … plse liase direct with cynthia … she will be most willing to help … she is one of the 爱心kefir妈妈 。。。。

  134. 哈哈, 没问题… 只等 MARY 联络我们的主席奶奶再转寄给我自行联络就可以了 🙂

    今早才将两批宝宝换班顺便量体重, 两批宝宝已有 220克了, 比我儿子长得更快, 好有成就感 🙂

  135. ya … cynthia … the wonderful thing abt kefir … u can feel life … the good bacterias are so robust …

    same logic applies to our health … so long we have more good cells than the bad ones in our body … good health just follows …

    as i always said … the recipeints not only receive the grains from the givers but the belssings too … esp from someone like u … 爱心爆棚的 kefir 妈妈…

  136. Mary,
    Welcome to KFC, wishing you happy kefiring, you can always come here as we have
    (tadaa…..)

    Our great Sifu (总陀主99) in the north,
    Central region’s 凡夫俗子 aka 爱心奶爸 always here to assist n spread the love
    Southern region’s Cynthia掌门人, she is really 爱心暴棚 kefir mama. See all her firfir growing fat fat and most important healthy you already know liao, right. (羡慕的眼神)

    Hopefully we will soon spread our love to West Malaysia !

  137. Thanks 凡夫俗子 & 叶,

    My kefir baby reach my home with their good bacterias & the full full love & blessing from you all, of course 头也壮壮啦 🙂

    “same logic applies to our health … so long we have more good cells than the bad ones in our body … good health just follows …” I totally agree, I’m suffering some serious illness right now, after taking kefir I can feel the differences, my inner body become very clean, light and easy (十分轻松)… help me recover my strength very fast. I really hope more people can try & experience the benefit of the lovely kefir.

  138. Dear Seniors/Expert

    Thank you so much for your update. Well appreciated. I’ll contact Cynthia then. Im newbiz to this kefir cultivation but i did try doing fruit enzyme. This blog interest me. If grain is easy to obtain and me ownself sucessfully brewing kefir eventually, i do wish to share out this wonderful creation with frens and spread the goodness of healthy life around.
    Ah! btw im dummy to chinese character so much so anyway i did manage to figure out the message putting across to me even though some lost in “space”. Hee!! Hee!! Till we catch up again. Bye.

  139. Hi all, Thanks so much for the responses.
    I was once given a kefir by a friend when I returned to M’sia from oversea as a gift many years back, which my dear good friend promises would cure my stomach ailment….
    But, I never got a chance to try it, as my mum ‘accidentally’ throwed it away thinking the ‘milk’ had ‘rotten’…:-P I cannot ever find back in Malaysia…

    Joyful, at least from your answer somehow I am willing to give it a try now, u manage to convince me lah.. my last one sitting in the fridge for more than a month, before went into ‘tong sampah’.. now I feel very shame leh….

    If I want to request a grain, I should send the request to the email as well? I am in Melaka..

  140. Cynthia, hope u’ll recover fast. BUt yes, after taking kefir, i also feel that my body is lighter n tummy is flatter. probably it clears our bowels kao kao every morning? 🙂 take good care ya!

    Sifu-sifu here, my babies are very hungry one lor. Everyday 13 hours nia got pockets of whey dy. by 24 hours, one third of the 500g jar will be the whey. That’s d best i can do (Sifu mama told me to put into d fridge for 12 hours but i dare not, hehe). But yes, after covering my babies with cloths instead of d jar lid, the grains appears to be clearer, although not like Joyful and 凡夫俗子 ‘s big big ones. hehe.

  141. Hi SC,

    I have someone in Melaka who received my grains a while back, but I need to find out whether she is still brewing kefir. If not, I have other way for you to get it but you NEED to email me at kefirbaby@yahoo.com

    I would like to safeguard the safety of those wonderful people who are involved in sharing grains and your own safety too. So, we shall talk via emails for further arrangement.

    Regarding your lactose intolerance issues, there are ways to overcome it when brewing kefir. One way is via double ripening. This is esp necessary for the diabetics too. When you get your grains, I will guide you, meanwhile, do some reading and research, as I always emphasize.

  142. 你们的乐心帮忙真的让我好感动哦!KFC真的是一个无私,热情又有爱心的大家庭。。。

  143. 哈哈 。。。 leng leng 。。。你能加入这个大家庭 。。。 也算是个有缘人 。。。
    我们相信你也会是个无私,热情又有爱心的kefir妈妈 。。。 物以类聚嘛 。。。
    让 kefir 不但能在你家开支散叶 。。。 把健康带给你和家人 。。。你还可以把这爱的种子散播出去 。。。
    感恩 。。。

  144. Joyful and ur lovely gang, Thanks for all the wonderful sharing!

    Can we make Kefir from powdered milk?

    What is the best temperature for the brew?

    How can i get Kefir in Sarawak?

    Joyful: i’ve emailed 2u earlier 😉

    Thank u so much!!

  145. JY,
    Of course, I have been using Fernleaf Full Cream milk powder for a few months now, maybe not as good as the raw milk or fresh milk but it is cheap & affordable. You know lah , I am always trying to find the cheaper alternative for everything I use or eat without sacrificing the quality of course.

  146. JY,

    Hi dear, I’ve replied 2u earlier in detail 😉 but for the sake of the rest, I’ll reply based on my experience.

    1. I’ve not used powdered milk but I believe when you are running out of fresh milk, powdered milk is better than no milk, and let the kefir grains sits there starving or sleeps in the fridge without milk

    2. Room temperature is ideal for brewing kefir

    3. We communicated re. the supply of grains.

  147. 我发觉加密糖比加果汁还好喝。。。
    用奶粉也可以吗???这样省很多喔!因为鲜奶很贵RM5-6一个liter…

  148. hi leng leng
    虽然你可以用奶粉 。。。 不建议喔 。。。
    我相信作出来的品质会不consistent 。。。
    你可以采用 tesco fresh 。。。 RM4.80 。。。比较经济实惠 。。。
    长远来说 。。。 是值得的 。。。 身体变的健康些 。。。 会省下一笔医药费喔 。。。

  149. hi leng leng …
    是咯 。。。 kampung 虽然没有 tesco,母牛应该很多吧 。。。
    生奶好处可多呢 。。。 我也是用生奶发酵 kefir 。。。
    这点钱我个人不会省 。。。 该用的就得用 。。。我会在其他东西下工夫 。。。 比如少逛街看戏等无谓的开销 。。。
    再说奶粉是经过加工从奶水变成奶粉的 。。。 我比较喜欢原装原味的食品 。。。因为人是大自然的一分子 。。。 吃越接近自然的食品越好咯 。。。

  150. 通常你们怎样收藏做好的克非尔奶?我发现一个方便又环保的收藏法,不知道你们有用过吗?就是把克非尔奶装回装鲜奶的包装盒里收藏,不用洗方便又环保。哈哈

  151. Hi Leng Leng,

    挤奶的方式不卫生? 有这可能性. 但是kefir grains 有抗毒菌的功能. 再加上母牛体内原有的益菌是无比的.

    我是用玻璃瓶收藏做好的克非尔奶.

    凡夫俗子的说法, 我 200% 赞成.
    该省的一分钱都不可花, 该花的一分钱都不可省.

  152. 找一个信誉较好的 indian milkman 咯 。。。
    如果他这么多顾客喝了都没事 。。。 应该会是很安全的 。。。
    我的 indian milkman 卖奶都卖了好几代了 。。。我和同事每个星期帮他买两次 。。。 一次买十多包呢 。。。
    你收藏做好的克非尔奶的建议很好 。。。 省时又环保 。。。
    感恩 。。。

  153. Hi Leng Leng,

    生奶买回来后要先过沥以防有杂毛。

    Sifu,
    我在两片kefir宝宝身上发现橙红色的斑点, 请问是不是受到污染了?

  154. Yey, i’ve tasted kefir!
    Hello everyone, thank u so much for all ur valuable sharing. it helps me to nurture my bb Kefir. Plus, im still a baby in Kefir making. “to to ji kau”(in Canto though im not a Canto)

    Mummy Kefir,
    thank u so much for ur fat fat bb Kefir. i think i put them on slimming program dy…pls dun scold me. let me explain…when d bb arv, i used last 2tb spoon of nespray full cream milk powder to culture 1tea spoon of bb.(i kept the rest in d fridge as i did not hv fresh milk) the nx day, they become very fat and multiplied to 2tb spoon oh!. i tasted d kefir n it was very sour. so i dint consume them but i was very happy bcos they r healthy after successfully crossing the South China Sea. then, i change to dutch lady fresh (DLF) milk. when i harvested them for the second time, i was so sad n pity the bb. they shrink a bit in size n mass. so kolien…
    i also added DLF milk to the rest of the bb tht i kept in the fridge and harvested kefir after 24hrs. it’s delicious!
    i drank my 3rd batch of kefir today and it’s sourer than the 2nd one. my family members aren’t keen of consuming them even though i mixed fresh fruits in my kefir. they dun like milk product 😦 therefore, im consuming all the kefir by myself.

    i’ve a few ques. i really need all ur advice.

    1.how much amount of kefir is enough for our consumption in one day?

    2.can i take kefir as much as i want in a day everyday? (i wonder what will happen if we’re overdose with kefir and the healthy good microbs?)

    3.is consuming kefir after 24hrs better or refrigerate it til 48hrs so as to get more benefit from it better?

    4.after which period of time is best to consume kefir?

    5.is there any alternative to help my family consume kefir without using milk product?

    6.how can we make water kefir from milk kefir?

    7.do we need to clean the glass jar or use new clean jar before we add in new milk to bb kefir?

    ps: i think that it’s very ‘sayang’ to clean d utensils tht we’ve used after making new batch of kefir. other than licking them, i thought of an idea that i once used with yogurt. i used my fingers to apply the kefir leftovers that stick to the glasss jar n strainer to my face as facial mask. i love this natural moisturizer!

    thank u so much and happy kefiring!
    JY

  155. Hi JY,

    I have no way to gauge the concentration of your powdered milk mix in terms of lactose content, so, hard to comment on the grains growth.

    The lactic bacteria in the grains is active and thus it will produce a more sour kefir. I want to get the full benefit of probiotic from my kefir so I am not bothered by the sour taste.
    You may reduce the grains or add more milk.

    Ans 1: I consume a small glass in the morning on empty stomach, one more after meal. I normally mix my diy enzyme with kefir.

    Ans 2: I practise moderation. Too much of one thing will cause adverse effects.

    Ans 3: 48hrs is considered ripening of kefir. Yes, the benefit increases, especially for the lactose intolerant and diabetes.

    Ans 4: refer ans 1

    Ans 5: coconut milk kefir, nut milk kefir, soya milk kefir, water grain kefir, juice kefir

    Ans 6: you need to grow your milk grains first. After you convert the milk grains to juice or water kefir, they will stop growing and have a limited life span

    Ans 7: I have answered this, see previous post up there.

    ps: yes, the licking of kefir will cause the secretion of digestive juice in your tummy. Face ? I will give this a miss, I do not want my neighbor to think that I have a baby at home vomiting all over my face, hahaha…

    pps: I am in the midst of putting up a write up to share about the Water Grains Crystals or Sugar Kefir Grains (as Dom calls it) that I have been culturing. So if you are interested, come back here more often to catch it.

    This will be a good probiotic alternative for people who dislikes milk product and the good news is…. it is cheaper to brew it daily.

    Thomas, got enough space to feature the article here 🙂 ???

  156. Hi,
    餐前喝kefir能有饱足感能帮助减肥,餐后喝kefir则能帮助消化助增肥 :)。
    不同的奶水所发酵的kefir俱有不同的营养和热能,用生奶所发酵的kefir热能较高,我试过一天喝两杯结果引起头痛。

  157. Joyful, 🙂
    Thank u so much for ur informative guidance. My bb Kefir is multiplying happily. Will be looking forward for ur sharing on Water Grains Crystals! i converted a small teaspoon of bb milk kefir to water sugar kefir. the result—> Splendid!! Mum’s fren commented tht it tasted like champange. I like it. it’s fizzy and yummy.

    Thomas, 🙂
    From ur previous reply, u said tht u used Fernleaf Full Cream milk powder. Im using Everyday Full Cream milk powder.
    How long do u let ur bb kefir ‘play’ b4 u consume the Kefir?
    my bb kefir and the curd floats on top and the whey is produced below the curd. does urs ‘behave’ like mine? i wonder if this is normal… (joyful, i need ur advise too. Thanks)
    🙂

    Cheers,
    JY

  158. Hi JY,
    We have very little control over how the kefir bb behave. Some day, they float but other days they don’t. The whey has no fixed position either, so as long as there are curd and whey, it’s normal.

    Cynthia,
    Thanks for sharing your valuable experiences 🙂

  159. jy,
    I’ll leave it until the curd and whey occur (15-20 hours), the curd floats above whey all the time (so far).

  160. hi jy …
    once u get a clear separation of curd and whey …. the kefir is generally pretty sour … i usually harvest my kefir once i can see pockets of whey …
    of course …. each individual’s taste bud is different … so don be so concerned how it looks … so long u get the taste u like best without sacrificing on the goodness of kefir …

  161. Thomas and Joyful,
    Thanks! i am more ‘pang sim’ now.

    Hi BB,
    im still a learner. i learn it from a website.
    u can google for water kefir, lemon, cranberries.

  162. Thanks, 凡夫俗子!
    My Kefir is definitely getting very sour from day to day.

    Cynthia,
    Now i know y i was dizzy the other day! i’ve already cut down a little of the amount of Kefir tht im drinking now. Thanks for sharing ur valuable experience!

  163. Hi JY,

    U are welcome 🙂
    If U have found you kefir become more sour and sour maybe you have brew the kefir with too much grains or too little milk, I have come across and try the ratio of 1kefir grains : 10milk, will get the best taste results.

  164. Hi all,

    I read in a blog that Cold Storage in Singapore sells commercial kefir drink (Nancy’s Kefir, imported from US, I was told) for SGD 14.95. Can someone convert that to RM ?

    So, to those of you who have the live kefir grains, please take good care and value the grains you received. There are tremendous cost savings for you as you are enjoying the “real kefir” with the mere cost of fresh milk.

  165. SGD 14.95 X 2.43 = RM36.33 for a litre ? Wow !!!

    来来来,还不快点跟 kefir 奶奶致敬。。。salute 🙂

  166. aha … joyful …
    but the sad thing these days is that ppl are 愚蠢到了极处 …
    they will always equate price to quality …
    and they will also tell u … “huh … mine imported from us one … very expensive one le …” 一笑 ….
    stupdity is at the all time high … sigh …

  167. Morning Joyful & Cynthia

    Bingo! im so so happy on my 3rd round brewing the kefir drink. It turns out a well product and me finally “graduated” in brewing a good kefir drink. Attachment pic to share out.

    Cynthia a very thanks to you. You bridge the connection to obtaining this kefir grains in Southern of Malaysia and eventually recipient like me in Singapore region enjoys this wonderful drink. We shall meet again when i cross over.

    Joyful and team a double/triple thanks again. You’ll the angel of this works, for no you all will everyone of us now be able to enjoy this wonderful kefir grains and getting to a healthy life.

    For me i’ll continue on and spread the good works of all Shifus and share over with frens in Singapore. Let the world be a healthier living.

    Salute and thanks to all for spending time and effort in getting every one to live healthier. Indeed a good contribution to this earth not that a Nobel prize can be giving for your works but all Shfus name are being well known in your blog…..

  168. Mary,

    You made my day 😀 🙂

    Yes, my kefir team is the best !! We are working on more exciting things, hehe, yet to come…. can’t reveal right now.

  169. THIS IS THE Q ASKED BY “BEGINNER”:

    As for my kefir, I have defreezed it. Wash it with water, put it in a glass container with milk. Plan to leave it for 24 hours.

    Can u tell me if the kefir is ok, what will I find after 24 hours. If it should taste sticky and sour, is it kefir or the milk turn sour???

    Should i feed it with milk a few days/ times b4 i try to drink it??

    sorry after so long not making it, I have no confidence at all.

    ANSWER:

    1. What’s the amount of your grains ? What’s the amount of the milk you used?

    2. I can’t tell if your grains is ok without seeing them. If you want, you may email me the photo of your grains.

    3. If the grains is active, it will give you curd (tau foo fa type of consistency) and whey (yellow clear liquid) separation after 24 hrs. Without that, please do not drink it.

    4. It shouldn’t be sticky. 5-6 years in the freezer is a looooooooong looooong time. Furthermore, how did you freeze it is another issue.

    5. You may need to do many many 24hr milk changes in order to wake them up (assuming if they will ever wake up) and nobody can tell you for certain how much milk you will need to waste for this process.

    Hope this helps.

  170. haha … joyful …
    u must have forgotten the fairy tale of sleeping beanty …
    wat beginner needs to do now … is to find a prince charming … riding on a white horse … to kiss ur kefir babies … then the curse will be broken … n they will wake up from their sleep … lol …
    joke aside … but if beginner can really revive her batch of kefir babies … it is really 功德无量喔 … even though she may have to try many milk changes … i think it is a challenge of perseverance, patience and compassion she has for the kefir babies …

  171. Oh great, 凡夫俗子

    You can go over to break the curse then, no need to ride on white horse, on motorbike will do…hahaha.

    True, it will be good to give it a good try (milk change I mean), you never know, it may just wake up, against all logic.

  172. Dear Joyful, 凡夫俗子,

    pls see my reply on your question (IN CAPITAL LETTER)

    1. What’s the amount of your grains ? What’s the amount of the milk you used?
    BEGINNER : ABOUT HALF A TABLE SPOON, IN 100ML

    2. I can’t tell if your grains is ok without seeing them. If you want, you may email me the photo of your grains.

    BEGINNER : I HAVE SENT PICTURE TO YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS. PLS CFM IF U RECEIVED.

    3. If the grains is active, it will give you curd (tau foo fa type of consistency) and whey (yellow clear liquid) separation after 24 hrs. Without that, please do not drink it.

    BEGINNER : THE BOTTLE HAS A YELLOW CLEAR LIQUID AND TAU FOO FA PART. AFTER I STIR THEM, THE LIQUID BECAME SMOOTH AND BIT MORE STICKY THAN MILK.

    I TRY ONE TABLESPOON AND IT HAS A STRONG MILK TASTE, A LITTLE BIT OF SOUR TASTE. BUT MY STOMACH FEEL ‘ 悶悶地’. (I DRANK SOME ENZYMES LATER, BUT STILL HAS THAT ‘ 悶悶地’ FEELING.

    4. It shouldn’t be sticky. 5-6 years in the freezer is a looooooooong looooong time. Furthermore, how did you freeze it is another issue.

    BEGINNER : I AM SURPRISE THER IS REACTION ON THE FIRST TRY. I HAVE THROW AWAY THE FIRST BOTTLE, THINK BETTER TRY SEVERAL BOTTLE B4 REALLY DRINK IT. WHAT DO U THINK??

  173. Hmm beginner,

    I saw the photos. It didn’t look like a normal brew to me. Normally the whey is slightly yellowish but clear. Yours looked muddy and the curd also looked weird. I suggest you don’t drink it for the subsequent few batches. I am afraid that the bad bacteria might have contaminated the milk causing the muddy whey. They might have taken control over the good bacteria in there, I can’t be 100% sure. Please rinse it once and start again.

    Are you sure the milk measures 100ml? It seemed more than 100ml. I suspect it’s 250ml (1 cup), am I right? Or it’s because I have no comparison of scale?

    The grains you have is only half a tablespoon and that is only sufficient to brew half a cup of milk ie. 125ml, so if you used 100ml, then it’s the right ratio to kick start the grains.

    Keep me informed of your later brew.

  174. Hi joyful,

    I read below msg from above sharing

    发酵好的kefir,你会发现到下半罐是液体,whey,浮在上面像豆腐花的curd。

    However, my kefir has the whey (liquid) on top and the curb 豆腐花 below. Is this wrong??

  175. Hi beginner,

    Generally, it is like that, some grains and curd at the top layer and pockets of whey below that. When you see the bottom of your bottle being all whey, it will be too sour. But nothing wrong with that if you like it really tangy.

    However, what I saw in your brew so far is not very normal.

    Don’t worry, I have replied your 2nd email and instructed you what to do.

    I am determined to help you revive your “sleeping kefir beauty” whether you can find Prince Charming or not, hahaha…

  176. Hi beginner,

    I just received your 3rd email and replied as follows,

    “My heart leaps with joy. Yippie !!!

    You are about to witness a miracle to your “sleeping kefir beauty”. I think you are getting it sooner than I expected. Yes continue for one more batch and taste it again.

    Please strain when you see the separation of whey/curd disregard of time. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT put it back to the fridge. Take it out NOW.

    And if for whatever reason you need to store the kefir in the fridge, please put the lid on.

    From now on, do not rinse/wash the grain again.

    I need to go for my trip now. Bye.

  177. hi beginner …

    i cant help but to share the joy of u reviving ur sleeping kefir beauties … well done ..

    i hope u have learnt something very crucial abt the goodness of kefir from this rescue mission …. that u may realise how robust and hardy are the kefir grains … so it is not an over statement what they can do for u in maintaining a healthy condition in ur guts … boosting ur immunity against bad bacteria and other alien microorganism in ur body …

    hang on there … u r almost there !!!

  178. Hi all the shifu, thanks for sharing the benefit about kefir. Can I have some of kefir BB to try the wonder of the kefir? I’m in Singapore.

  179. Hi Mary,

    Email me.

    Thomas has published the email address in red up there. Please scroll all the way up.
    Oh, read the article as well to understand the process of brewing kefir. The wonder of kefir comes with a bit of work too 🙂

  180. 凡夫俗子 ,

    Did you go over to Beginner’s place on your motorbike?? Heh, heh…

    Her latest email arrived me a minute after I arrived and login from my hotel room last night. From her description and photo, the “sleeping kefir beauty” is starting to dance. So magical !!

    I am confident that Beginner is going to get her delicious kefir drink pretty soon, after 5-6 loooooooong years in the Antarctic. This is how long the “sleeping kefir beauty” can wait for their master to shower them with love again. No fairy tale !!

  181. hi mary …
    before i proceed … i must made known to u that i m not a medical prof nor nutritionist … but just sharing my experience and observation … the effect of enzyme on diabetic patients …
    i have an aunt in mid 70s … even with medication … her sugar reading is always around 10 – 12 … after taking the enzyme … the reading dropped to 6 – 7 …
    my co driver … his reading was 16 … after taking enzyme .. dropped to 6 -8 …
    his sister … reading 18 on insulin jet … her reading dropped to 10 after taking enzyme …
    all of them are taking enzyme made of small bitter gourd + guava …
    BUT … THE DECISION IS YOURS OF COURSE …
    daily dosage is proportionate to their body wt … for every 10 kg 10ml of enzyme … half dosage each time morning and nite …

  182. hi joyful …
    u huh … so sua-gu one … living in the cyber age … do i need to go on a motorbike ???
    i just sent a BIG electronic virtual kiss to beginner’s sleeping kefir beauties la … hahaha …
    joke aside … i really share the joy of she reviving her grains … as if i too was in the rescue mission …

  183. thanks! Joyful, I will email to you in short while. And thanks to 凡夫俗子 for sharing info about diabetes & enzyme. Any idea, is Diabetes patient can consume kefir?

  184. Hi Joyful and 凡夫俗子,

    凡夫俗子, Thank you for sending your BIG electronic virtual kiss to my sleeping kefir beauties, u must be doing this while i am sleeping. Keep the good work, so my kefir beauties can grow fat fat and health.

    Joyful, i am waiting for you instruction to start drinking the kefir. But I cannot resist to take a table spoon tonite. So far, no ‘ 悶悶地’ FEELING.

    Totally agree on the robust life of the kefir grain, is so amazing.

    Thank both of you for your support and help. *-* *-* *-*

  185. Hi Beginner,

    I had replied your latest email late last night.

    From the latest photos, your “sleeping kefir beauty” is working well already. You need to increase the amount of milk so that the timing of straining is within your control (according to your daily routine).

    You need to also make sure that from now on, keep the separation in check also. Try not to let it separate like what’s shown in your photo. When you see pockets of whey, you can strain.

    Start with drinking small amount like what you did, then listen to your body and increase the amount gradually until you can take in a cup at one time.

    Let me know if it is still “very chessy” and I will tell you what to do.

    Hey, let’s celebrate this historical moment !!!!! 😀

  186. Hi Mary,

    Kefir is very good for the diabetic. They are normally suffering from Vit B group deficiencies due to certain drug they take. Kefir is riched with Vit B etc.

    “Ripened” kefir is best for them as the lactose is almost down to nil.

  187. hi mary …
    during the fermentation of the milk … the good bacterias in the kefir grains wld have broken down the lactose (milk sugar) in the milk … this is also the reason why it tastes more sour the longer u ferment the milk …
    the same logic applies to diy enzyme … though we have added sugar in it … the process of fermentation have broken down the surcrose or frutose that dun affect diabetic patients anymore …
    BUT A WORD OF CAUTION : so far all those diabetic patients that i know … they use rather low sugar ratio in their enzyme … abt 1 pack of pian tang to a kg of fruits … n ferment it for 2-3 weeks only …
    so in my opinion … since a diabetic patient can take enzyme … why not kefir ???
    BUT … to be on a safe side … i will suggest to monitor the sugar reading regularly and u may start the patients on low dosage … n increase gradually over time … no cut please …

  188. Hi Joyful and 凡夫俗子,

    Joyful, i will not send u picture tonite, cos the kefir is basically same as pass two nite.

    Today, I am manage to strain the kefir in the afternoon (after about 16 hours), when i saw the seperation of the whey and the curb. It smell less chessy and the curb is more soft and quicker to mix with the whey.

    I put the kefir drink in the fridge in a glass bottle with lid on.

    I put the kefer grain in a clean glass bottle and put milk in. (I do not have enough milk at that time, so I add more milk in a few hours later after I bought it) Is this ok??

    As for the kefir drink, I only drink it at nite. The kefir drink became more creamy. I drink about 30ml adding some enzymes into it. It taste very good.

    I keep the balance kefir drink in the fridge, can i add tomorrow’s batch into it?

    I want to increase the volume of the kefir drink slowly as my body is not a milk nor a soy bean drink lover.

  189. Hi beginner,

    I am simply overjoyed to hear this report of yours. Everything sounds so well. The grains are slowly finding their balance in term of the bacteria:yeast ratio and that is good.

    Yup, you may leave the grain at room temperature without milk for a good few hours. This is better than keeping them in the fridge.

    Yes, you may keep adding newly strained kefir to stored kefir. This helps to ripen the kefir. Ripened kefir has better nutrients.

    Sure, increase intake gradually till you can handle a small cup at one time.

    Congrats and may the Awaken Kefir Beauty brings you good health 😀
    Good night.

  190. Hi Joyful,

    I am very happy, I am drinking about 125ml of kefir drink daily. I prefer to add enzymes into it and it taste so good. Very creamy and with gas, so lovely.

    Yesterday morning, I have started a new batch of kefir with only 100 ml of milk. (run out of milk) I only come home around 11:00 pm, with some bought milk. I must be very tired, so, instead of straining the kefir drink, i just add another 100ml of milk into it.

    I was quiet worry when I went to bed !!!!!!

    This morning, It turns out quiet good, very creamy and good quantity of gas. ( half brew for 24 hrs and half brews for 12 hours)

    Joyful i like the kefir with less milk taste and more gas, sour is ok. Does this means i need to keep the brewing much longer?

    My thinking is, I will strain the kefir once I saw the curb turn a bit ‘hard/ dry’. Usually around 16 hours.

    How long can I leave the kefir grain in the milk and not became too acidic for the grain??

    I am not sure if my kefir beauty has grown, there is always some ‘milky’ stuff around the grain and i do not want to press them. I just spoon them gently so, the ‘ball’ of kefir grain rolls down a bit.

    Oh, I am so happy about them, they are really my kefir beauty.

  191. Hi beginner,

    I enjoy reading your post. Adding enzyme or raw fruit and vegetable juices to kefir is like adding extra turbo engine to it. I do that all the time.

    What you have done (by adding new milk) is another way of brewing kefir. There isn’t a need to brew too much longer. Strain it once they start to separate, in your case 16hrs or whenever it fits your routine. Then keep the strained kefir in a bottle with closed lid. Leave it out on counter top for it to ripen, say another 12-24 hrs depending on how sour and fizzy you prefer.

    That way, you are not subjecting the grains to acidic environment.

    Many of my grains recipients said the same like you, that their grains had grown overnight. Actually, those milky lumps are curd. You may press them a bit to dislodge the curd from the grains.

    Treasure your Kefir Beauty and promise me, never send them to Antarctic again, ok? 🙂

  192. hi beginner …
    congras … another success story …
    keep it up … u will realise very soon that u shld not have stopped kefir the last time … now under the guidance of joyful … more goodness u gonna discover in kefir …
    ciao …

  193. Hi Joyful,

    I am still trying to find a routine to brew my kefir. This is what I understood so far, please correct me if wrong. THanks

    1) as long as we see curb seperate into whey, we can harvest.
    Q: If i have to leave the kefir for 24 hours and became 60% whey, is that too acidic to the kefir grain??

    2) Store the strain kefir closed lid glass container and it can be left on room temperture temperate, and it will continue to ripe into more nutritious drink.

    Q: How long can I leave the strain kefir in room temperature closed lid ?

    Do I need to open it once a day to leave out the gas??

    Can I continue to add freshly drained kefir to the stored kefir?

    Also, can it be taken off the fridge and back into it, if needed.

    If I am not able to finish the kefir, how long can I keep it in the fridge?

    Sorry for so many questions.

  194. Hi beginner,

    You need not apologize for the Qs asked. These are excellent Qs. It goes to show that you are committed to brew kefir for long term.

    Ans to Q1:
    Yes, too acidic especially when you do that all the time.
    Reduce the grains or add more milk to get the 24hr cycle.

    Ans to Q2:
    As long as you like or until a point where you can no longer tolerate its sour taste. Lid must be closed.

    You may open to release gas if you want it less fizzy or less alcohol (if you intend to ripen it for many days). If it is only for another 24hrs, that wouldn’t be necessary.

    Yes you may add freshly strained kefir to the old batch during ripening process.

    Yes, you may take out the strained kefir from the fridge and put it back later.

    You can keep the strained kefir in the fridge as long as you like. It will turn more sour, more fizzy and more alcohol.

  195. Hi Joyful,

    My computer has die on me. I have to borrow other’s computer to send msg to u.

    So, until I got a new computer… U might not hear from me for a while.

  196. hi,凡夫俗子,您说您住在 klang valley 的哪个角落啊?我已Email joyful.如果您是住在靠近puchong的话,我可以去跟您要些baby grains 吗?那就不需要麻烦joyful了。

    joyful,are you from Klang Valley as well?

  197. This is Q from June:-

    Q: I had harvested my Kefir milk twice, and it is very successful, pls tell me what
    I suppose to do for the remaining “kefir baby” ?

    My Japanese friend taught me diy Yogurt by directly add in the yogurt into the
    milk (straight pour out from the packet), without boiling, will this any harmful??
    and the yogurt still looks pretty good. Pls advise.

    A: Brewing Kefir is a daily routine. Since you are very successful in it, why don’t you arrange your time to do it daily? That way, you can get the full benefit of Kefir. If you let the Kefirbaby go hungry for too long, soon they will stop making you good kefir.

    Treasure the kefirbaby you received.

    To make yogurt, you need to bring the milk temperature to an optimum degree so that the good bacteria strains can be activated to ferment the milk. If your Japanese friend told you otherwise, perhaps you should ask him/her whether it’s harmful or not.

  198. 心涵 …
    我住在 cheras area 。。。
    joyful 是 kefir 的总舵主, 你就放心和她联系吧 。。。

  199. Ting tong…. haven’t been here for ages *blush* hehe… been bz. But tot of dropping by for awhile. discussions r still “heated” ya? 🙂

    I’ve changed the use of milk to skim milk lately. turned out fine. d difference is just that it’s more runny n not so thick compared to using fresh milk. Checked out Dom’s kefir site before changing n it’s stated that skim milk can be used, so i decided to change. Cos… i gained quite a bit of weight after consuming kefir =) Since skim milk can be used, i thought why not. ha~

    Anyway, good luck to all those who’re brewing! We’ll certainly reap the benefits out of it if it’s done consistently. ***Touch wood touch wood~ but since i started taking kefir, i’m in the pink of health for almost half a year already. *** Thanks to 凡夫俗子 & Joyful all along the way, they’re very very helpful! =D

    Happy Brewing to all! 🙂

  200. Joyful..

    Thanks for your reply, ya, I m doing everyday now, I just don’t know whether I
    m doing correctly,
    1stly – 1 litre of Pasteurized fresh milk brewing 300-350 ml ?
    2nd – how am i going to do with the remaining Kefir grain?
    3rd – I put 2 soup of kefir grain to 1 L of milk?
    Lastly – with many many thanks

  201. sorry Joyful, for Q1 – i mean 1L fresh milk only can brew 300-350 ml kefir milk?
    Q3 – 2 soup spoon of kefir grain to brew 1 1L of fresh milk?

  202. June,
    sorry to ‘kepo’ a bit.
    my 500ml fresh milk can brew 400 ml kefir milk for the 1sy day (22hours and 30mins).taste like chadder cheese.
    second day,u guess what happen?can brew 500ml kefir milk!

    Joyful,is it okie ah?then i stop brewing coz too much.today,i am thinking to brew.Then,wana ask you,the baby grain in the fridge(already feed milk),still need to hav a quick rinse?thx.

  203. 心涵,

    Thanks for sharing, may I know how much kefir grain did u used for 500ml fresh
    milk? For me, i use 2 soup spoonful of kefir grain for 1 litre fresh milk and it came
    out only 300-350 ml kefir milk.

  204. june …
    i don understand y ur yield is so little …
    u may not get one lit of kefir from a lit of fresh milk … but shld not b far out …

    the rule of thumb is a soup spoonful of grain for a cup of fresh milk … mathematically u shld add in 4 spoonful of grain for a lit of milk …

    心涵
    no need and do not rinse the grains …
    hahaha … joyful must have said it over and over again many times liao …
    no wonder … she starts to get wrinkles cos she is always frowning … hahaha …

  205. halo, Joyful and 凡夫俗子 两位好。
    想请问为什么这星期我做出来的kefir milk 没 有那麽浓了。每一次我做好的,当用筷子搅一搅时它会起泡泡,好象coca-cola被摇。很有生命力。这两次的死死。。呢。。是不是睡了。味道一样,牛奶一样,时间一样 。但是没有汽和泡,没有。。umm…..啦… 还有。。还有比较水一点。thank you.

  206. 凡夫俗子,

    after straining the kefir milk, the kefir grain remain quite a lot, so, what shall
    i do to it?

    I used to consume the kefir milk with my diy enzyme, am i right?
    TQ

  207. Hi June, 心涵, 凡夫俗子,

    I just got back from a few days of outstation working trip.
    Aisay, what did I get?? Grey hairs and wrinkles. Thanks to 凡夫俗子!!!!!!

    Something is not quite right with your yield, June. When you strain, please stir, press and scrape the bottom of the strainer to make sure that the curd is dislodged from the grains.

    What 凡夫俗子 and 心涵 said is right. 1 table or soup spoon to 250ml ie. 1 cup of milk. It will yield pretty close to 1 cup.

    心涵,

    I have just replied your email and answered your concern.

    Yes, 凡夫俗子 is right again about rinsing, except the wrinkles part…hahaha.
    However, there are two exceptions, if it gets yeasty (tastes and smells like cheese) or if it gets contaminated, then rinse.

    You may read my post on the method to back up grains (stored in the fridge) up, up, up there (if you can find it, ahahaha…)

  208. Hi SY,

    Great to hear from you again. Thanks for dropping by to encourage others.
    You are right to say that one need to be consistent and may I add, persistent in whatever we do to see success.

    Good health does not appear overnight so is ill health.

  209. Hi new kawan,

    Kefir grains has a mind of their own. Some day especially with weather changes ie. cooler, you may find that the grains are less active. If you close the lid, it will be more bubbly but when you covered with hanky, it may be less.

    The fresh milk you used, even though it’s of the same brand, hey it’s from different live cows. They are not robotic cows, so the composition of things inside varies.

    Your environment changes everyday too. The grains may pick up some other micro-organism from the air which may affect your brew.

    As long as the taste is consistent, it should be fine.

  210. hi, Joyful,

    I stirred b4 straining, and let it dripping into the glass container, so when i used 4
    soup spoonful of kefir grain for new brewing, the rest about 1 bowl keep in the
    fridge .
    thanks

  211. Hi Joyful and 凡夫俗子,

    I have the same problem as New Kawan.

    My kefir drink use to have gas, bit sour, thick and smell cheezy instead of milky. It also always divide into thick curb and clear whey. when drink it very creamy and thick.

    However, the recent kefir drink, even its close to 24 hours, there is no clear seperation of curb and whey, it is watery instead of thick curb part. It smell more millky than sour. When drink it is waterly and taste less sour. Just not the normal kefir drink as b4.

    Just like new kawan’s description below.

    想请问为什么这星期我做出来的kefir milk 没 有那麽浓了。每一次我做好的,当用筷子搅一搅时它会起泡泡,好象coca-cola被摇。很有生命力。这两次的死死。。呢。。是不是睡了。味道一样,牛奶一样,时间一样 。但是没有汽和泡,没有。。umm…..啦… 还有。。还有比较水一点。thank you.

    Yesterday, I have washed the kefir baby in distrill water b4 putting milk on to it. But tonite is still look funny. Not know if I should consume the drink??

    Please help

  212. Hi Beginner,

    I guess you must be the Beginner who has seen your kefir sleeping beauty revived? You have a different icon now, haha.

    Am I right to say that the weather at where you live is going into winter soon? When the temperature drops, the kefir grains will slow down considerably. Try to keep the fermenting jar in a warm cupboard or let it brew longer. You may reduce the milk with the same amount of grains and see whether that makes any difference.

  213. June my dear,

    You also stir during straining. When you pour the brewed kefir into the strainer, you stir and press a bit until you see the grains clearly.

    What is that 1 bowl of thing? I do not know how much grains you received, but I don’t think you received 1 bowl + 4 spoons, right? And, kefir grains do not grow overnight into 1 bowl. So, that 1 bowl must be curd I would safely assume. You mix the curd and whey and drink it.

  214. hi,
    just to share with everyone.My experience is:-
    first time brew:
    duration:22hours and 30mins
    weather:cool and cloudy
    taste:like cheddar cheese,less sour.
    because of the cool weather,after 18 hours,nothing happen!Then i put on top of my PC,after 4 hours plus,it turn to thick curd but less whey.

    second time brew:
    same weather but i put on top of my PC all the time.
    duration:19hours and 50mins
    taste:very bitter and sour coz i did’t reduce the grain and rinse(500ml milk +1st day’s grain)

    3rd times brew:
    weather:sunny
    i still put on my PC.this time,it turned to think curb and whey 1:1 after 12 hours.But i still leave it till 7.30pm coz i was away.
    taste:sour but no bitter,watery compare with the previous kefir

    I am a newbie too.For me,i think the weather and temperature are very important to brew the kefir:)

  215. Joyful, 凡夫俗子 & 心涵,

    Ya, I know where I had gone wrong liao, bcos I strained the kefir milk let it “sip” through the coffee cloth strainer , this does not allow me to stir a bit to get the kefir totally and it left behind the baby grain plus the curb as well.

    Thank you everyone for your advise and sharing experiences with me.

  216. Hi to all,
    几经波折, finally the babykefir reached me, thanks to Joyful for her kind arrangement. Feel sorry I have to dispose off the first batch due to contamination.
    I would like to share with everyone how I start:
    First brew (Kick start): (Average room temp. approx. 28degC., overcast )
    1. After receive my babykefir during lunch time, leave it in refrigerator (normal compartment) until 9pm took out to stabilize it to room temperature.
    2. At 11pm, follow instruction closely, a quick rinse with un-chlorine water (in my case, use a 1L mineral water).
    3. Put the grain (volume about two soup spoon) into a 1.5L glass jar.
    4. Pour in 0.5L of green label Dutch lady fresh milk.
    5. Cover lid with hankie.
    6. Leave the jar on Kitchen top without direct sun light.
    Observation after 24hrs: Slight increase in level of content inside the jar, soft curd appears on top, cannot see clearly whether any whey pocket between bottom mixture of watery milk and grain and the top curb. I thought it is not a success so I strain the content and take the grain out to repeat the process.

    Second brew (Normal start): (Average room temp. approx. 28degC., overcast, occasionally shower )
    At mid-night, start immediately after the first brew without rinsing the jar, put the kefir grain back into the glass jar, repeat step 3~6. Shake the jar gently once in the morning and once in the afternoon.
    Observation after 24hrs: Level of content increase slightly. Can see a layer of whey between top curd and bottom milk and grain mixture. Anyhow, I stir them before strain the mixture. The product taste a litter sour just like creamy yogurt. One of my sons and I love it.
    Observation: No increase in Kefir grain. Probably I have push some of them over the strainer. Still have 2 spoonful of Kefirgrain for 0.5L (two cup) of milk. Not enough for two persons.

    Points to note:
    1. I should store it in a warmer area.
    2. Stir the content after 12 hrs to agitate the grain.
    3. Wait another few hours to make it more sour.
    4. I forget to stir the content before strain it during the first brew.
    5. I forget to taste the strained milk to check the sourness during the first brew.

    Third brew is in progress, this time with Magnolia fresh milk. Without rinsing the jar I start the 3rd brew immediately after 2nd brew. The room temperature is still around 28degC, overcast in the morning and now raining like cat and dog. I have left the jar near a warmer place now, on top of my fridge. Wish me success.

  217. Joyful,

    Yeah u’re right too–being persistent will bring us fruitful outcomes =)

    I’m a strong supporter of kefir, so i’ll definitely encourage whoever is interested to keep the passion going. seriously, we need passion (so that the kefir will grow well) and consistentency (so that the kefir has its ”consistency” as well, LOL) to reap the benefits in the long run.

    By d way, is the champion juicer recipes given by u? still yet to try d ice cream recipes =) limited space in my fridge. But i’ve been blending fruits + kefir for breakfast.

    凡夫俗子

    i’ll make an appointment wt u one day. MV is so far so i really rarely go there. will try to fix a time n get d grains from u. =))) Thanks in advance. hehe

  218. oh yah, Joyful,

    my 5th batch of kefir milk I strained last night, this time, using a bigger mesh strainer
    to strain, I can collect one full big nescafe bottle, the clear yellowish liquid about 1/3 of it and the rest is milky liquid. Am I right??

    With thanks

  219. hi sy …
    i use nkve to work …
    so if u prefer … we can meet at ikea for the pickup …
    i prefer to go to ikea on mon evening … easier to find car packing on monday nite … immediately after the weekn rush …
    let me when u r ready …

  220. hi june …
    the more whey u get … the more sour is ur kefir …
    of course .. it is perfectly alright …it is a matter of taste … i usually harvest my kefir once i can see pockets of whey without waiting for total separation …
    this all comes with experience … calm seas wont make good sailor …

  221. 法籣奇章
    wow … r u a lab assistant ??? hahaha …
    cos u sound so systematic n meticulous in wat u r doing to ur kefir baby …
    kefir babies are microorganism … they are alive … shower ur love … they will reciprocate … hahaha …
    usually i don clock it … very much depends on my visual inspection …
    on the whole … u r on the right track … congra … kefir papa …

  222. Wow, well done 法籣奇章,

    I just got back online and I read your detailed post and some others’ posts, boy I couldn’t stop laughing, hahaha. I am overwhelmed with joy. This is the type of satisfaction I received ever since I started to share Kefir.

    Let me commend you for the care you have for my kefirbaby, ooops, YOUR kefirbaby I mean. Don’t worry about the growth now. Just do your normal brew and in no time you will see grain growth. The main thing is the daily milk feeding and do not put the grains in the fridge please. As the grains grow, you add more milk gradually in proportionate to the amount of grains until you get the amount of kefir milk you need.

    Keep going.

    ps: you beat me flat, I thought I am detailed enough but you won !! hahaha… hmm, KL is not raining cat n dog but overcast (wth haze) with temp 27degC, my kefirbaby must be taking an afternoon nap at home now…hehe.

  223. Hi SY,

    Yup, Champion Juicer Reviews is my juicing blog but I have tried to introduce Kefir in juicing program. This blog seeks to serve and support consumers (mainly Champion Juicer users) in US, Canada, Europe and Australia.

    All the recipes come from Joyful, yours truly 😀

  224. Haha looks like quite a number of people misunderstand like I did my kefir last time, let me draw a clearer picture for you :

    Kefir (After the kefir grains fermented the milk) = sour whey + creamy curd
    We drink both the whey & curd.

    june,

    If you use cloth coffee filter to strain the fermented milk (kefir) & kefir grains you’ll totally separate the whey & curd, then you’ll have the sour whey in your cup and the creamy curd & grains in the filter liao… actually this is the way we do the kefir cream cheese (after we strained the kefir & kefir grains n re-strain the kefir with cloth).

  225. Hi Cynthia,

    Starting from Sept 09, those new kefir papa and mama who received kefir grains from me no longer have this problem because I sent out kick-start instruction sheets with clear illustrations. Since then, I received many feedback on smooth start.

    From time to time, they will also receive updates, recipes and newsletters from me 🙂

  226. hi, Joyful & every others,

    now, I think I am right and a bit successful, my last 2 batches of Kefir milk collections
    are 2 big nescafe bottles.

    thank you everyone for sharing, I am enjoying my diy kefir milk.

  227. joyful,

    kefir baby is home sick .. she is miss her grandma very much .
    yesterday ater i went back from hometown. Take it out about 11pm fridge, remove the lid and cover with clothes put it under table.

    Today 11pm, it still milky + sour. Do not see anything similar like the picture u show. Cud +Whey. So i buang the milk ade..Redo again..

    Hopefully baby will get well soon la..

  228. 凡夫俗子
    I’ll email u about that ya. Dun wanna mafan u lah, i’ll arrange a time n meet u @ MV. =)

    Joyful,
    THanks for d recipes but anyway i’m jz juicing d kefir using a blender. wat’s d difference between a blender n the champion juicer?

  229. Aiyo Esther,

    Homesick huh? Don’t break my heart lah.
    Hey I received the photo of your kefirbaby and your success story this morning, looking great leh.

    You kept the grains in the cold when it arrived you due to your travel arrangement so no choice, you had to waste the milk on your first batch loh. But, the subsequent batch is giving you good kefir liao… not bad at all.

  230. Hi SY,

    Haha, to talk about Champion Juicer here is off-topic leh.

    In the nutshell, a blender blends all the stuff into soft liquid but a juicer will extract the juice out from fruits and veggies, expelling the pulp.

    If you have time, go through my blog posts there. I have written about the difference between blender and juicer and the reasons why you need to remove fiber from the juice.

  231. <>
    I have some KEFIL GRAIN given by my neighbour. The making way of tis KEFIL GRAIN is totally different from yours. She was using 1 bowl of brown sugar with 1 bowl of KEFIL GRAIN and add with 3 bowl of filtered water. Then keep it in a grass bottle (cover with white clothe and rubber band as what you did) for 4 days. Finally, pour the drink to another grass bottle and drink directly.

    My neighbour are strongly recommended for my family, but the drink make me feel like after taking alcohol. It is hamful to our body if we consume it continuously??? Since I do not have any information on this KEFIL GRAIN, therefore I hope you can kindly give me some suggestion / recommendation on the right way of making it.
    Thank you.

  232. Hi 卖菜妹,

    From your description, the grains you have is actually Water Kefir Grains. I have just posted an article, “the Bubbly Tale of Water Kefir”. Please go there and take a look.

    I do not recommend brewing water kefir for 4 days, it will produce too much alcohol.

    I do not claim to have the best way but so far I am happy with the results. Try it yourself and see. It is a good stuff, don’t doubt.

  233. hi … 卖菜妹
    ya … i too came across ur experience …
    i m not trying to put anybody down … the method u described is generally used by the ah soh / ah poh or for that matter ah kong ….
    they know it is good stuff but they do not dwell in depth into wat it is …
    they will tell u it is very good very good but asked … they cant really tell u why it is so good la …
    they r kind hearted … n wanting to spread the goodness of kefir … but it is difficult to persuade intellectual like u … just listen n drink lo …
    wat joyful is trying to do in the bubbly tale of water kefir is to put some color into water kefir n make it more interesting to do n drink ….

  234. Hi Joyful,

    I am Beginner. Sorry u might have another icon again, becaue I am using another computer to log in again. Still struggle with my computer.

    I really need your help. I now have over 9 tablespoons of kefir grain and I am brewing about 800ml of kefir drink per day. The drink has became too sour.

    How many tablespoon of kefir grain should I use for 800ml of drink? What can I do with the rest/ balance kefir grain?

    Did u have any grain that u are not brewing, what do u to them??

    Can I use the same kefir grain to brew water kefir? I think if u brews kefir in water, they will not grow.

    Also, can I use GREENFIELDS ‘ultra heat treated’ full cream fresh milk (from Australia) to grew the kefir drink??

    Sorry for so many question.

  235. Hi Beginner my dear,

    Wow, your once “Sleeping Kefir Beauty” is doing amazingly well. After sleeping in your freezer for 5-6 years, she has woken up not only to brew you kefir but also to give you off springs, this is incredible. I am happy to hear your update.

    9 tablespoons to brew 800ml is too much grains, no wonder the kefir you brewed was sour. Use 1 tablespoon per 250ml milk (1 cup). So, 3 tablespoons to 800ml is suffice.

    Keep the extra grains as back up. Read my post up up up there for the methods. Any excess, eat it.

    ‘ultra heat treated’ (UHT) milk involved ultra high heat treatment to the milk, so all the good stuff in the milk is killed. Anyway, UHT milk to the grains, it has not much impact but to you it has in terms of health benefits.

    I tried to use milk grains to brew water kefir but the result was not good, that is why you didn’t hear me talk much about it. The grains will stop growing and eventually dies off.

    My excess grains? I send them off to people who needs it and requests for it in exchange for “food” for the needy. The recipients get what they need (grains), I get what the needy needs (rice), haha.

    Hope I have answered all your Qs adequately.

  236. Hi, Joyful,

    Thanks for the reply. No wonder my kefir drink is getting so sour. Will it cause constipation if it is too sour??

    I have asked all my friends if they want to adapt some of the kefir grain. But they think brewing it evey day with milk is too troublesome and costly.

    I think I need to keep a back up and eat some of the excess grain.

    Can I just eat the grain raw?? How much can I eat per time??

    ………….

    I have 9 table spoon, so

    – 3 table spoons active brewing
    – 3 table spoons back up ( keep in freight with close lid for 7 days, with same amt of milk as grain)
    – eat the balance 3 table spoons.

    The active brewing grain will become back up grain after 7 days and the back up grain will become’ back up’ grain.

    …………….

    Am I correct in my understainding.

  237. Yes beginner,

    Your understanding to rotate the back up “shift workers” is correct. You can chew the grains raw or blend it into smoothies with the strained kefir milk.

    Over brewed kefir may cause constipation but again it depends on each individual, no fixed rule. Just test it out and see if you are ok with it.

    Too costly to brew kefir for its probiotic benefits ? Then ask your friend to buy the probiotic capsules from the pharmacy, and see how much they need to spend, and what they can get out of it, hahaha.

  238. Sorry Beginner,

    Your statement should be this way:

    The active brewing grain will become back up grain after 7 days and the back up grain will become “ACTIVE” grain.

  239. Previously, I received requests for milk kefir grains from time to time through

    kefirbaby@ yahoo.com

    I had to decline some of the requests outside Malaysia and Singapore due to certain constraints. However, starting from 2010, I managed to have a breakthrough in solving those issues.

    I am pleased to announce that I am now able to ship out live milk kefir grains to countries in South East Asia for eg. Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, Singapore and Malaysia of course.

  240. Received the kefir grains from Joyful on Tuesday. Brew it on Tuesday night and got the Kefir milk on Wednesday night. Blend it with Mango+Banana and share it with all my family members before dinner. =)

    I have few questions here, hope to get some advice from the members here:-

    1) I worry that one day i will be tired or lazy on taking care this kefir grain. Is there any method/ motivation behind that can make me “sustain” in brewing kefir milk?

    2) Was wondering can i mix the Kefir Milk with the fruit juice once i harvest it and put it in the fridge standby for my family members (so that they can just drink it whenever they want without doing their own mixing). Or i can only mix the kefir graing with fruit juice during the time i want to drink?

    3) Can i mix the kefir milk with those beverage sold in the market, eg: Peel Fresh, canned milo, 100 plus etc???

  241. hi virusmAy,

    I am glad that you got your instant success in brewing your first batch of kefir, in fact almost all of my grains recipients experienced that smooth start. I desire the best for my grains recipients so the grains I sent out is fresh, healthy and more than enough to brew you 2-3 cups of kefir on your first brew.

    Recently, someone wrote to me that she purchased kefir grains in Kuala Lumpur. What she obtained is only half a teaspoon of frozen grains and it will take her time to brew even 1 cup of kefir. Sad !!

    Oh, I was carried away, need to answer your Qs….hehe.

    Q2: you may pre-mix the juice and kefir but the resultant drink won’t be very nice as the mix will experience further fermentation even if it is in the fridge. So the kefir mix will taste more sour. It is better to mix before you drink. Make sure your grains are not in there when you mix the juice.

    Q3: You may use those boxed juice but bare in mind that it contains sugar even though it says no sugar added.

    Use milo granules instead of canned milo, granular milo contains sugar also but less than canned ones.

    100+ ? Nah, don’t drink those stuff la. I bought zero canned soda drinks for Chinese New Year this year (managed to cut out those silly tradition I observed in the past, hurray). I brewed Dragon Fruit Water Kefir instead (I sent out the recipe to all my recipients before CNY). It makes good CNY drinks and also romantic Valentine bubbly drinks….heh heh.

    Oh, for Q1, see if someone else would like to share.

  242. hi …virusmAy …
    hmmm … so glad another one joining the KFC … of course … the credit goes to our chairwoman, joyful la …
    1) the most powerful tool to sustain / motivate u to continue to brew kefir is compliments u receive from friends that u look prettier la … hahaha …
    joke aside … it is very true … once u start to get compliments n feeling of well being … u just wont stop brewing kefir …
    2) u can … but shake it thoroughly b4 u consume … but don mix gallons of it … n taking it over a long period of time la …
    3) it taste better with fruit juice like peel fresh … but not milo / coffee … i have nvr tried but my friends did … they all said : ta sedap …
    u may mix it with red / green bean soup though … it taste pretty good … i tried b4 … but do not boil it with the soup … add in when the soup is no more steaming hot … the ideal temperature is when u can dip ur finger into the soup comfortably …

  243. hi virusmAy,

    Recently, someone asked me a question similar to your Q1 above. What’s the secret? How to sustain?

    I shared briefly with him what motivates me and I thought I would share with you too. You must be convinced first of all that kefir is doing your immune system good. When you feel that it helps you to gain good health, then there is no reason to stop.

    For me, I experienced the goodness of kefir and if I love my family enough, I have no reason to grow weary and stop brewing for the family. So to me, “love” is a powerful motivating factor here.

  244. Ahahaha Thomas,

    You are showing your true self here, extremely naughty.

    Well, I should have asked my late Grandma when she was still around, who is this Sha Na Na. Out of curiosity, I followed the link and lo and behold, I realize that your hair style has similarity to that of Johnny’s. Now, that can’t be a coincidence right? Following the hair style of your idol leh….hehehe.

    Anyway, the oldest singer I know is Michael Jackson, whether you believe or not.

  245. hi,kfc “kaki”! I understand that kefir milk is similiar to yogurt,and even better in nutritious. but are they taste alike ? and what ‘s the diffrent between kefir milk and kefir in brown sugar( taste and benefit). I m sorry cos i m a bit confused, pls “rescue” me,ha..ha. another” minta ” is i m in johor bahru, can anyone stay here” spare me ” or sell some kefir baby?? I really want to try it out . Thank you banyak banyak!!

  246. Hi wonder,

    Kefir milk tastes a bit like a kind of drinkable yogurt. It contains more strains of good bacteria and some beneficial yeasts.

    If you read “the Bubbly Tale of Water Kefir” then you will be able to know the difference. The pictures I posted on both threads show the difference too.

    I have replied your email already, with regards to getting the grains 🙂

  247. Hi Joyful,

    I have successfully brewed the milk kefir from second batch onward. Thank you so much!!

    Can a 3 years old child drink milk kefir ? I did gave some to my child and his bowel movement has improve a lot, so is mine.

    He like it with ribena.

    Thank you once again.

  248. To Joyful & Mr Nice

    I read yr DIY Kefir before, but I don’t know what is it? Until just now I by-pass Mr Nice
    explanation, then I come across the word ‘suet lean’, well, I’m also having this kefir drink now. I just know simple Chinese but do not know how to write. I asked my sis before, what is this? She told me, it is called ‘suet lean’ fr Tibet and is good for health.

    Well, my sister has been drinking this kefir water for 10+ years already and is still drinking it. In one month, she will drink for 20 days and rest for 10 days, then re-start again. Her skin complexion is very nice and smooth. Her face looks young. She uses Sunlac skim milk powder to culture/feed the kefir. The kefir water tastes nice & smell good. According to her, this brand of milk powder best suit the kefir grains. She will stir the kefir grains and strain the water to another glass cup and drink it. She washes the kefir grains everyday and make a new batch everyday. She will drink for 20 days, then stop for 10 days and re-start again the next month. She drinks it plain.

    Acutally, I had this kefir drink b4. That was many years ago. I was too lazy to work on this kefir grains so I put all in the freezer. One day, I took out and found the kefir grains all dead.

    I follow her method and have started to drink this kefir again for a few months already. I add 1 tlbsp of honey to 1/2 cup of kefir water. The taste is very nice, just something sweet & sour, and I love it!. I’ll not wash the kefir grains in one of my batches and see what are the diference! I have 2 batches of kefir grains. One in the fridge and one in the kitchen cupboard.

    Thanks for telling us that the kefir grains can be eaten. I make 2 batches of the kefir drink. 1st batch I’ll culture with milk powder for overnight – the next morning then I put it in the fridge for 10 days. The 2nd batch, I’ll culture everyday with milk powder and drink the kefir water for 10 days. Then I change – vice versa ‘cos I don’t want to waste the kefir grains. Now, I’m so happy that I can eat it! I must tell my sis to eat it and don’t throw away the excess as she has been doing for so many yrs!

    Pls give me some advice on this. Thanks.

    Bye and take care.

  249. thankyou joyful, I will get to the other thread (water kefir) and try to figure out their differences. and Thanks for your email, I’ll get bckt to u for detail cos i’ll be away for months(afraid no one take care the kefir baby) !!

  250. Hi Meg,

    Well, what else can I say but to rejoice with you that your health improves.

    Yes, kefir is very good for young children, in fact better than drinking regular milk (which contains lactose). The improvement in his bowel movement indicates positive benefits.
    Keep going and be diligent at brewing it.

    You sure have a smart son with good taste bud 😀

  251. Hi angie,

    Since your sister is reaping the benefits of ’suet lean’ from Tibet, and you are doing it with her grains, then you should continue on with her prescribed methods and ingredient.

    The only thing I would not use (unless I run out of fresh milk), is powdered milk. I have problem with the process of turning milk into powder. This is just my personal opinion and preference.

  252. Dear Joyful

    First of all let me just say you are doing a good job helping others. I just stumbled onto your blog in my search to find what the stuff given to me by my friend is. He calls it Tibetan “suet lin”. After going through the Web, I now think it may actually be kefir. The mode of use is however quite different. Briefly, he cultures the stuff in a solution containing raw brown sugar mixed in RO water. This is left to ferment for 3-1/2 days, after which the mix is strained and the liquid is poured into black glass bottles. The liquid is claimed to have powerful curative properties, and some who have been taking it now swear by it, having some chronic pains cured. Since the mode of use is different from yours (and others in the Web), I would love to read your comments. Thanks.

  253. Dear Joyful,

    i am so excited that i am going to receive your baby probably this afternoon. may i know how to preserve them while in the office before i reach home?
    i have read thro’ and printed out your recipes to try at home… look so pro and yummy le.
    my girl always wants juice, now, this is the time i give her variety.
    thanks jouful and all senior for your sharing. i enjoy reading it and hehe, welcome me…
    我来也

  254. Hi Lew,

    This blog belongs to Thomas aka Enzymo. He is gracious enough to allow me a thread or two to share kefir, a wonderful superfood I found. I am glad you find the blog helpful.

    The grains that you described is the water kefir grains and not milk kefir grains which I shared in this thread. If you go to the other thread “the Bubbly Tale of Water Kefir”, you will find that it might be similar to your grains and the medium of culture is basically water and sugar.

    Hope this clarifies your doubt.

  255. Hi Vian,

    欢迎你!!

    I share your excitement. Though I have been brewing kefir for quite a long time, I still get excited over my kefirbabies 😀 I am happy when you experience the goodness of kefir.

    Be creative to improvise the recipes you received and you will get pleasant surprises when you dare to experiment. Get away from stagnant routine (stagnant pond breeds Aedes and it stings) but always move forward like a flowing river.

    This is how Joyful keeps her joy 🙂

    Have fun.

    ps: sorry for the late reply, I just got back from overseas.

  256. To all the Kefir-Papa,

    Wishing you a blessed Father’s Day.

    May all the good things be found in your household under your care, guidance and leadership. In return, may honor and respect follow you all the days of your life.

  257. Hi Joyful

    My friend told me about how wonderful kefir is. I accessed your blog, and after going through yours and other sites, I feel I owe it to my loved ones to try to make some milk kefir for them, and for myself, of course. I also learnt that you may be able to spare some milk kefir grains so that I can start. May I know if it is possible for me to get some? Also, how do I get to collect and how do I pay?

    Looking forward to hearing from you. Thanks in advance.

    May

  258. Hi May,

    You should have received the kefir grains on Friday and be a happy Kefir Mama this weekend. Have fun.

    When you brew with LOVE as an underlying motivation, you will sustain and succeed.
    You have my blessing 😀

  259. Hi Joyful,

    Yes, I’ve received the grains and have started brewing. Thank you so much.

    I probably messed up with my first trial, but the subsequent ones were OK.

    The only thing bothering me a tad is that the grains do not seem to have multiplied to any extent even after 4 brews. Is this normal behaviour? Or have I been goofing up again?

    Kind regards,
    May

  260. 想请问tibicos, 雪莲 & kefir 是同样的东西吗?(看了”淘宝网”有点confuse.)
    要如何确定“菌种”是死或活。

  261. Hi May,

    Your grains are fine. As I have mentioned to you in my earlier email reply, “patience” is the key. They will grow if you adhere to the brewing instruction.

  262. Hi Joyful, thank you for ur reply.

    Sorry for asking question without going tru the blog,I was confused & urgently need expert’s advice. I almost finished ur blog while waiting for your answer,and I think 我已经摸到一点头绪了.
    Ok, 是这样子的,我家婆最近突然收到一堆“雪莲酵母”(quite a lot,是用plastic bag分几包装着的),不懂得怎么处置,也没收在雪柜。第二天就把它交了给我,我也不懂得是什么东东,虽然里头有说明书,可是看了也不是很懂,就把它暂时放在雪柜。

  263. continue…
    说明书里教的step是: 酵母3饭碗(用水洗干净)+500g印度黄糖 +1 liter过滤水. after 72hr 才收集酵素液。为了要confirm酵母是不是还活着,前几天,我已试做了一次:酵母1碗半+250g黑糖+500g过滤水,发酵过程,上面出现很多泡沫,72小时后收成,酵母增加了一碗,这就表示酵母还话着,对吗?But 它的酵素液,我没敢try,after 看了你的blog, I think better把它倒掉。前天,我试再做第二次,这次我用黄糖取代黑糖。昨天(after 24hr) :酵母有增加,味道:没有酸,只是甜而已, 是应该这样子的吗?可以用同样的酵母来做kefir吗?我手上的酵母的colour是light brown, 有两种size, 一个是比较粗的, 一个是比较幼的. 太…太多了……! 有谁可帮忙收养??

  264. Hi 雪莲活命水,

    First of all, Thomas (Enzymo) is the blog owner and Joyful is just a “tumpang fella” here to share about kefir…. 😀

    Your brewing method is different from mine, so the finished product is also different especially its taste. I would imagine that the alcohol content would be quite high as the sugar used is a lot (to me).

    May I suggest that you stick to the brewing method which came with the grains and allow the brew to ferment for 72hrs as prescribed. Your grains are used to the way they were fed so you should continue with the same method.

    Other than that, I can’t and shouldn’t comment too much…. 🙂

    ps: the grains you have must not be used to brew milk kefir. Milk kefir is brewed using milk kefir grains. You may refer “the Tale of Kefir” thread.

  265. Hi Joyful,

    Oh, I see!
    Thanks for yr advice. I’ll stick with the brewing method which came with the grains.
    请问:
    1)如果太甜时,是否可以减少糖量呢?
    2)喝Water Kefir 会有好转反应吗?
    3)可同时喝water kefir & millk kefir吗?

  266. Hi, Joyful,

    Thanks for your reply.
    等我先掌握好这个water kefir后,再来try milk kefir, 到时可能又要来打扰你哦!
    祝你身体健康,身心愉快!

  267. hi Joyful,

    I don’t know why my recent milk kefir brewing seems very alcoholic, 500-700 ml milk with one spoonful kefir grains, the whey is about 1/4 of the milk used to brew.

    Am I right with my brewing?

    thanks

  268. Hi, i am interested in getting the Kefir-grain, i am staying in Seri Kembangan, Could you advise where can i get the Kefir grains? Look forward to hear from you. thanks alot!!

  269. Hi June,

    Reduce the grains further and reduce timing. Strain when you see pockets of whey, not total separation. Hot weather in Malaysia lately may cause your kefir ready sooner than expected.

  270. Joy’s kefir grains are very strong and healthy.
    My first batch of kefir already tasted very good, better than the kefir I made from Kefir starter powder.

    After 2weeks of drinking kefir everyday(about 1Liter), my health has improved so much I couldn’t believe it! My immunity has got stronger and my digestion is improved also.
    Even though now I know I can eat whatever and the kefir will help me digest the food, I don’t tolerate junk food very well now, I’m so happy because my body is finally waking up and saying “NO” to all junk food~~

    My bad breath is also reduced remarkably!! Sososo happy with my new life~~~

    thanks Kefir! Thanks Joy!

    Piki 🙂

  271. Hey, Joyfyl, beginer would like to ask for your help on these questions:-
    1) since kefir grain cannot come contact with metal. for sterilizing container, what shall
    we use to boil water? mostly use are stainless steel kettle and aluminium.
    2) what is the correct way of sterilizing before putting in the kefir grain?
    3) the container after sterilizing must be fully dry before putting in grain?
    4) my friends told me must rinse everyday? is it true? never try kefir milk before
    its taste is it like baby vormit milk that kind of smell? is it true?

  272. Hi Piki,

    You make my day 😀 Thanks for your encouraging testimony. Keep going keep brewing, you will experience greater improvement in your health.

    Wishing you the best of health 🙂

  273. Hi Kathleen,

    I do not know what type of grains you may have so I just offer my opinions based on my experience with my milk kefir grains.

    Q1) since kefir grain cannot come contact with metal. for sterilizing container, what shall we use to boil water? mostly use are stainless steel kettle and aluminium.
    Ans: you do not need to sterilize the container or bottle. No boiling is required.

    3) the container after sterilizing must be fully dry before putting in grain?
    Ans: just wash the bottle as usual and dry with clean dish cloth.

    4) my friends told me must rinse everyday? is it true? never try kefir milk before
    its taste is it like baby vormit milk that kind of smell? is it true?
    Ans: I do not rinse my grains. My kefir milk does not taste like baby vomit at all. It is creamy and smooth, smells good too 😀 ….. like baby after shower, hahaha…

    If you do not like dairy products, perhaps you may want to try brewing water kefir.

  274. 请问用来做雪莲酵素的菌种(加brown sugar的)和这个用来做成奶白色的kefir是一样的菌种吗?

  275. Hi penguinyvonne,

    不一样. milk kefir (奶白色的kefir) 和 water kefir (你所谓的雪莲酵素) 菌种内的良菌和酵母是不同的, 构造也完全不相似.

  276. I notice that in Malaysia, Water Kefir is commonly known as Snow Lotus Enzyme (ie. 雪莲酵素). For those who read Dom’s Kefir site, you may notice that Dom equates Milk Kefir Grains to Snow Lotus (SL) and Tibetian Mushroom (TM), thus causing some confusions among the Malaysian readers.

    Dom further explains that the three cultures (KF, SL, TM) are essentially the same mother cultures. The only difference is their places of origin. According to him, milk kefir grains were originated from Caucasus Mountains, Tibetian Mushroom from Tibet and Snow Lotus from China. ( Refer Dom’s FAQ no: 34 at http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefir-faq.html ) He posted the photos of the above-mentioned mother cultures there also.

    Dom did differentiate between the Milk Kefir Grains and Water Kefir Grains (aka Sugary Kefir Grains) at this site,
    http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html#alternativekefir
    under the subject heading “Water Kefir or Non-diary Kefir”. You may see the photos Dom posted as well, to understand the differences.

  277. Hi! 你好!我从我妈那里得到一些应该是kefir 的菌种,我妈告诉我要培植在矿泉水里加brown sugar, 我没喝过因为不知是什么东东?上网查后发现满有趣的,请问我能拿现在的菌种(就是在水和糖培植的)制成你现在的milk kefir 吗?这两者有何差别?我怎么知道自己拿到的菌种就是kefir?谢谢。

  278. hi Vinnylow,

    我认为你手中的菌种应该是 water kefir grains / tibicos / Snow Lotus Enzyme seed (ie. 雪莲酵素). 你可到这儿看看我附上的照片, The Bubbly Tale Of Water Kefir (太阳菇菌 – 水克非尔) – by Joyful.

    Water Kefir Grains 是不能发酵牛奶, 制成milk kefir 的.
    我刚寄给你的 Milk Kefir Grains 就能发酵牛奶.

    你可以用印度黑糖培植的 water kefir.

  279. Joyful,
    I am new to kefir but read about its tremendous benefit. I would like to give it a try. I have one question , where can you get your ‘fresh’ milk? or are there any reliable source of fresh milk in Malaysia, like non hormone added, pasteurized or hormogenized?

    thanks,
    Pauline

  280. MAKING KEFIR CHEESE

    I love making raw milk Kefir Cheese. After I strained off the Kefir Milk (at 12-15hrs), I poured the Kefir Milk into a cheese cloth pocket and let it drip for 12hrs in the fridge. What I collected was a tub of delicious, creamy Kefir Cheese.

    I sprinkled some Himalayan Rock Salt and mixed herbs to it, served it as a dip or spread. Absolutely yummy and smooth.

    THE USES OF KEFIR WHEY

    I kept the kefir whey in a glass bottle and used it in juices or smoothies. It can also be used in bread baking, soaking grains, beans, oat etc or for fermenting vegetable eg. Kimchi, Sauerkraut etc. Adding kefir whey to water for cooking rice is a good way to make a pot of fluffy rice.

    You may also use kefir whey as a face toner or cleanser. For hair care, after shampooing, follow with a kefir whey rinse. Leave the kefir whey on for 5-10 minutes, then rinse off with water. Half a cup of kefir whey to a tub of warm water for foot soak is absolutely rejuvenating.

    Kefir whey has anti-microbial properties, so it’s good for certain conditions of the skin and hair.

  281. Dear joyfui,
    你好,我是kifer发烧友,什么东西都加一点kifer milk下去。你说可做面 包,我又想try一try.
    怎样用kifer 做面包,是否还要用instant yeast?谢。

  282. 基本上, kefir milk 可以取代面包食谱内所规定的牛奶.
    可是你还是要用 instant yeast.

    如果你不怕麻烦,你可以google “sourdough bread recipe using kefir”.

  283. hi Anny,

    牛奶里的乳糖已被 kefir 益菌消化得所剩无多,所以 kefir milk 对乳糖不耐症的人来说是个好消息.
    Kefir milk 对消化有问题的人是最好不过.

  284. can i know if kefir grain here gluten free?
    i wish to make young coconut kefir for my son, he is on gluten free & casein free diet

  285. hi pc,

    Water Kefir Grains are what you need if your son is on GFCF or GAPS diet.
    Young Coconut Water Kefir forms an essential part of the above diet. You will save a lot from buying those expensive probiotic capsules if you make your own probiotic drink at home ie. Young Coconut Water Kefir.

  286. Hi! Would like to find out if you know of any shop in the Klang valley area that sells ready made kefir? Thanks for your help

  287. No Tan, as far as I know, Kefir are homemade, using the real kefir grains as starter.
    Commercially produced kefir is never the same as the homemade kefir in term of its efficacy and it is extremely expensive even if it is sold here.

  288. Hi, I wonder whether there is any luck for me to get some milk kafir grain from you. If yes, what will be the handling charge be?

  289. Dear all, I wish to have some kefir grain for my bloated tummy son. Let me know anywhere I can get from Penang . Thank you very much~

  290. hi everybody,

    My apology for all the delayed replies as I am on a long overseas trip.
    Kindly drop me an email at kefirbaby@yahoo.com for any enquiry pertaining to kefir grains.
    I will address all your queries accordingly. Thank you.

    ps: Thanks, Thomas :))

  291. Hi everybody,
    My name is anna. I’m new to this blog . I am very interested in the kefir grains as I have read and researched about them being good for your health and well being . Currently I’m going through some health issues with my digestive system . I really would like to try to make kefir milk or water to consume . May I be so bold as to ask w whether anyone can spare some ?? Please , thank you in advance .
    Ps , this is a very interesting discussion blog .. I’m so glad I found this website .

  292. Good day
    I’m Sharon. I’m new about to know kefir. Anyway, thank you very much for all the clear explanation of kefir. I already email to the address given. In future, when I start my DIY Kefir, if I have any questions, hope your can help.
    Thank you very much for all your loving kindness. Cheers

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