我对”第一個月是酒、第二個月是醋、第三個月是酵素” 的看法

我对”第一個月是酒、第二個月是醋、第三個月是酵素” 的看法有一点点不同意. 要讨论这问题, 首先弄清楚什么是酒, 什么是醋, 如何制酒及如何制醋, 这些都是有特定的步骤和学问的酿制法, 制酒和制醋用的是酵母菌, 并不是用水果放些糖后密封就能变成可以装瓶卖的酒或者把酒放久点就会变成醋的. 话说回我们的“自制酵素” ,照理讲不适合叫做酵素, 那只能叫发酵过的蔬果汁, 但里头确实是含有益菌和酵素, 由于酵素这名称太深入民心了, 所以名称上有点混淆, 无论如何, 我们酿水果酵素时在一些条件下,确实是由糖变成含酒精alcohol的发酵果汁再变成含acetic acid 的发酵果汁.  我们是用糖把害菌的活动压制下来而让益菌繁殖(发酵).  所以大部分的发酵产品都含有酵素的, 当然酒和醋也是含有酵素的发酵产品(如不经加热的话). (也可以参考原子小金刚(12/3/09)凡夫俗子(13/3/09)在[这里]的意见) 酒类之所以含酒精是由于酵母菌(yeast)的关系.  在缺乏氧气(密封)时,发酵型的酵母通过将糖类转化成为二氧化碳和乙醇来获取能量。                 葡萄糖→  酒精 + 二氧化碳↑     在酿酒过程中,乙醇(酒精)被保留下来;在烤面包或蒸馒头的过程中,二氧化碳将面团发起,而酒精则挥发掉。   有氧气的环境中,酵母菌将葡萄糖转化为水和二氧化碳,例如, 我们吃的馒头、面包都是酵母菌在有氧气的环境下产生膨胀的。 所以同样的理论上,我们的蔬果里因为含有酵母菌,所以发酵时才会产生酒精. 酒精后来也因为含有醋酸菌,会变酸. 理想的情况下, 在制作酵素的过程,只要控制糖的种类, 提供氧气把酵母菌摒除, 就能把酒精降低;  但没有了酒精问题是否就真的解决了吗?  让我们看看:- 1.控制糖的种类–  其实不用普通的蔗糖(黄糖,片糖,冰糖,蜂蜜) 而用所谓的特别制造的寡糖就能减少酒精. 但你知道什么是寡糖吗? 寡糖对身体好吗? 2.提供氧气 – 就是发酵时不要密封, 让酵素透气, 也能减少酒精. 但你有一个可以发酵4星期以上而不受污染的地方来存放吗? 3.酵母菌– 你知道如何把酵母菌摒除吗?  我也不知道. 还有就是商业制造的酵素里会使用特定的菌种, 所以可以控制发酵的过程, 优点是可以得到比较标准式的酵素, 弱点是这类菌种是已被”驯服“的菌种. 反而是自制酵素里的菌种比较多样化, 益菌和酵素种类多, 弱点是较难控制发酵的过程和失败率比较高. 那么我们家里制作的发酵的水果汁, 如果不要含酒精,应该如何做呢? 理论上, 先用一般酿制”酵素” 的方法, “单向”密封瓶子, 让氧气不能进入瓶内,但又能让里头的二氧化碳排出来. 这样一来, 1个月后, 糖便能完全转成酒精, 然后换个瓶口大的瓶子, 加入醋酸菌(mother of the vinegar),在有氧的情况下, 二度发酵 6-9 个月, 便能把酒精转换成 acetic acid. 那就可得到又有酵素又没酒精的发酵水果汁了.   (我只是讲理论,不要问我怎样做) 我是经过深思熟虑后, 衡量了利与弊, 才决定教大家做一般的简单自制酵素, 半密封瓶蓋下, 发酵一个月以(可以是2个月,3个月; 如果你照著我建議的1:1 糖份法,又不抗议污染它的話 ,是可以放個几個月是沒問題的).  如果你真的怕酒精,最好是等发酵得有点酸才采, 但这並不代表100% 无酒精的.  比较担心的是很多人在制作酵素时,因为怕甜,怕酒精,所以放少少糖,快快发酵2-3 个星期就采收,我看了有点心寒; 你们确定放少糖, 害菌能被压制下来吗?  你确定2-3星期可以完全发酵吗? 这是只我个人意见, 欢迎有这方面知识或心得的朋友提供意见.

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45 thoughts on “我对”第一個月是酒、第二個月是醋、第三個月是酵素” 的看法

  1. hahaha ,,, mr enzymo … ur post is a little too deep for me … i can only guess wat u said …
    but the question of bad or good bacteria … the rule of thumb is to smell the enzyme harvested … cos only good bacteria will produce an enzyme that smell and taste good … bad bacteira will only give us foul smell n horrible taste enzyme …
    just like our gut … so long the ratio of good bacteria far exceed those of bad bateria … we will be in good health … otherwise we will fall sick …
    no way … that we can ensure only good bacteria exist in our every day life … it is also the basic principle of yin-yang …
    ooop … i think i may have talked too much … hahaha … correct me if i m wrong … here to learn n share la …

  2. enzymo 君,
    真好, 又上了一堂课 🙂
    请问如何确定自制酵素已”完全发酵”, 我通常让它自由发酵约一两个月到它不会再发泡就采了, 应以怎样为准? 如果糖放太不多会影响发酵吗, 要如何补救? 谢谢.

  3. 凡夫俗子,
    never mind lah, I’m just trying to put up my opinion on the alcohol/vinegar vs enzyme. It may not be 100% accurate , just an opinion.

    各位,
    这只是我的意见,不一定全对。
    P/s: 像葵花宝典,不要全跟 🙂

  4. hahaha … u r quite right … we are here just to share our opinion … nvr quote wat i said … hahaha … still learning …
    but very often … wat is good or bad is in our mind … so long we feel comfortable n good … let our heart to feel … others just an option for consideration … afterall … all our health conditions are different … so we tailor to wat is best for ourselves … so it all boil to down to our faith in the enzyme … just like the chinese saying goes : yi ren bu yon, yon ren bu yi … if we have doubt in the enzyme … y bother just becos ppl said it is good ???

  5. Hi Thomas, Bravo!!!
    Hi 凡夫俗子, I totally agree.
    Hi Cynthia, 我们都知道在发酵期间密封的玻璃瓶内会产生高压,我以每天放气的气压来衡量它的发酵进度,到了发酵后期通常气压会减少,通常平均到这个阶段是2到3个月。我会用那么长的时间是为了减少酒的味道。严格的话大概会拖到第4个月,如Thomas 所说的,不能期望0酒精哦。如果发现糖放太少随时都可以加糖,如果太多只好在喝时加多一点水,我不建议您把它们分出来再加水果是担心会受感染(之前记得Thomas 好像有题过)。Cheers.

  6. Hi 原子小金刚, 谢谢. 你的意思是酵素一定要2到3个月才能”完全发酵”, 在一般的情况下是不是只要根据2到3个月的时间为准来检定已达到”完全发酵”呢? 已”完全发酵”的酵素外形有什么特征? (不好意思, 我一直都想真正弄清楚这个问题, 因为各门派的做法都不同, 有者说两个星期, 有者说一个月, 有者说三个月…, 我只担心我做的酵素发酵不够或发酵太久, 酒味倒是没关系).

  7. 我也和Cynthia有相同的疑問耶,還有,醋酸菌是什麼?要怎麼加呢?為什麼可以把酒精轉成醋呀…不好意思,一下子問太多問題。

  8. cynthia …
    may i sugeest that u try the following :
    1 bottle u let it sit for 2 weeks ..
    1 bottle for 1 mth ..
    1 bottle for 3 mths …
    and u can compare which one u like best …
    only if u have faith in wat u doing … the enzyme will be effective …
    i have read an article that a jap professor has done an experiment on water … he found that under microscope … water forms very nice crystal like structure when subject to serene environment … the crystal like sturcture become ugly when subject to adverse condition …
    so is the diy enzyme … ur mood affect the end result … cos bacteria r live micro-organism … they respond to your mood … hahaha … so when tending to ur enzyme … always maintain a “hao xin qing” wo …

  9. Hi Cynthia, 凡夫俗子说的没错那日本教授叫Masaru Emoto,其实没有发酵“太久”的情形只要密封好,也有人一两年后才开封,也没有所谓的“完全发酵”,我喝的杂果酵素剩下一丁点还在发酵,只是如Thomas说的,3到4个星期就可以了,只是我觉得这个阶段的酒味特别浓,所以花长一点的时间来“去酒味”。发酵的速度也是因环境的温度而定所以没有一定的标准,大致上都是在第3-4个星期后,你要等3个月,6个月也可以,只是怕你没耐性。有的人说放的越久它就越强,这个说法我倒没那么在意。很难用外形来确定因为看起来没什么不同,您作个两三次经验就知道我们在说什么了。哈哈 🙂
    Hi Joyce, 这个问题Thomas和凡夫俗子好像回答了几次了,你在从新读读Thomas以上的文章也有提到。如果还不清楚您在问好吗?

  10. 我是说4个星期[后]才采。
    我每次做的时候, 做很多瓶,第一瓶在4个星期才采, 喝完1瓶后,用喝完的第1瓶子重做,同时才采第二瓶,喝完2瓶后,用喝完的第2瓶子重做, 如此类推,到采第3,4,5瓶时,已经是好几个月后的事了。

  11. 谢谢各位, 各位真是见多识广 🙂
    谢谢原子小金刚, 其实我已做很多年了(酵素啦) …
    嘻嘻, 也曾如凡夫俗子所说试喝过发酵不同日子的酵素 (酵素不是只喝几次就能功力大增, 所以掺掺喝感觉不出功效的差别, 只是觉得味道不同越久越浓) …
    哦, 原来不必太执着 “完全发酵” 的程度, 基本上4个星期就行了, 如果感觉它”酵”不够就让它再发几天 … Joyce 我明白了, 你 OK 吗?

  12. 嗨,Cynthia:

    也不曉得是不是明白了?這些東西好像有些難…

    這幾天試做了一些鳳梨酵素,聽說這個是最簡單做的,所以做看先。或許,有行動才會比較認識吧。

  13. 哈,Cynthia前辈,您说的没错,不必太执着 “完全发酵” 的程度。

    Hi Joyce, 不用担心…最多碰到什么状况再来问咯, 我们不会“见死不救”的。:)

  14. Hi everyone,

    I am a beginner in making fruit enzymes. my first bottle is pinapple enzymes, and is about 3 weeks now.

    plan to harvest next week. but not sure how to harvest it and what to do with the residue??

    please help.

  15. Hi, mr. enzymes,

    Thanks for your reply. It seems that the residue can be eaten too. can i therefore eat the residue and the liquid together everyday??

    there is no much space in my fridge, can i leave the whole bottle (liquid and residue) in room and just spone out the residue and liquid everyday to consume it??

    sorry for the question, is my first bottle, so excited.

    thanks for your help

  16. hi beginner …
    i always use a plastic colander, a small plastic pail, a flat bottom plate and batu lesong for harvesting my enzyme ….
    put the colander on the pail …
    pour the enzyme into the colander …
    put the plat bottom plate on top of the fruit residue …
    put the batu lesong on the plate …
    the weight of the batu lesong will further squeeze dry the fruit residue …
    easy huh ???

  17. hi beginner …
    technically u can do wat u have suggested …
    but it is strongly not recommended cos u run the risk of contamination …
    since it is ur very 1st btl … why run the risk ???

  18. I learn the batu lesong method from 凡夫俗子 but I replaced it with big plastic bottle filled with water. It’s a very good way to get maximum yield. I feel as though I work for IRB (Inland Revenue Board) after that 😀 hahaha…

  19. hi everyone,

    yes, i will squeeze out my first bottle as instructed. thanks.

    As for the residue, if i put it in smaller glass bottle and keep it in the fridge. i can eat it from time to time, on top of salad / ice cream/ yoghurt…. or just eat it plain. is this correct?

    (It is pinapple enzyme, any other better suggest?? face mask / soak feet??)

    Joyful, totally agree, squeeze every drop of juice out of u. (u are so funny, cannot stop laughting for a minute)

  20. Hi Beginner,

    You don’t sound beginner to me, you are very creative as a beginner. Are you sure you are not working for IRB?

    Yes, yes, do anything with the residue as you like, from face to toes, from fridge to dinner table, whatever la, just don’t throw it away, ok.

    I am glad to have found a laughing kaki, hahahahahaha……

  21. Hi joyful,

    I ensure u, i am not working for IRB. I am not qualify. But after squeezeing the juice out, i might consider to apply for part time. ha ha.

    All those tips for residue used are from the link mr. enzymo give me. thanks to him.

    i might sound experience, cos i have a friend who starts to make enzymes 3 months ago and have been drinking for 2 months now. His ‘house wife’ hand has improved substancially and his wife’s fungus disease also improved.

    i have been reading about it, and he has help me to make my first bottle, to be harvest next week.

    I am very glad that i can chat with all of u about enzymes making. (my first time using blog too ….. so out date !!!!!

    ——————————————————

    Mr enzymo,

    is it possible to give me the receipt for making

    排毒保健美容酵素’ and DIY#8.

    thanks

  22. Hi mr. Emzymo,

    sorry i do not have the link to your previous published receipt. Can u give it to me please.

    thanks

  23. Hi, Everyone,

    I have harvested my first bottle and really like the result. I take about 50ml daily, (dulite in 50ml of water only). Is this enough? (someone told me that if weight 100lb, should talke 100ml daily. this seems a lot)

    I have started a kiwi bottle about 3 weeks ago, i have chopped the fruit to very fine slides. Therefore instead of the fruit soaking inside the juice (sugar water), they have been floating above the juice on top.

    I have to roll it daily and every 2 days, open it the push the fruit down. So far, no 黑霉.

    I think i should not chop the fruit so fine, is this right??

    Have anyone got a receipt for making brown rice enzymes? need to find an enzymes that digest carbohydrate (amylase).

    Also, one of my friend after drinking kiwi enzymes said is very acid. (she takes 25ml with more than 250ml of water) Might be she need to add ginger in her next bottle??

    ………….

    by the way, i am not qualify for IRB, no patient to wait for the juice to squeeze out. I have kept the residue on the fridge and eat it with yogard. Is very strong, but very nice.

  24. hi beginner …

    the measurement u mention does not sound quite right … cos it is lb vs ml … one is apple, the other is orange … haha … not very comparable …
    it should be kg agst ml … ie … if u weigh 50 kg … ur dosage shld be 50 ml per day … 25 ml each time in the morning n nite …

    most of the time the fruit will float … so no need to be worry la …
    i personally prefer to slice the fruits as thin as possible …. of course … it is more time consuming than cutting it into chunks ….

    u may ask ur friend to mix the enzyme with fruit / vege juice … this way … the smell n taste of enzyme will not be so sharp la …

  25. Hi, 凡夫俗子,

    Thanks for your quick reply. Noted is kg to ml, so 100lb = 45.45kg = 45ml/ day.

    I had taken pinapple enzymes for 10 days now. Some how, my knee is a bit sour, not know is due to weather or part of my body’s reaction to the enzymes. (my knee is a bit sore from time to time).

    do u have any idea how to make rice enzymes? Will your 5 bean enzymes contain amylase that will break down carbohydrate??

  26. hi beginner …

    u r most welcome … afterall we are here to share and share alike … so 不用客气 …

    i have come across friends having this “sour” knee problem when taking enzyme initially … but it goes off after some time …. i think (think only huh ..) it is part of the detox effect of enzyme … wat chinese medicine practitioners call 瞑眩反应 …

    one of my work matse has sore knee problem … she always complains that she can hear the crack crack sound in the knee joint … i recommended her to take kefir … after 3 months … she told me no more such sound in knee joint anymore …

    if u r interested in brewing kefir … refer to the kefir thread here … or send ur request to our kefir mama, joyful … she will b most willing to share her grains with u … hahaha … she has a 菩萨心肠 ….

    i read somewhere abt the rice enzyme … but the author called it 回春水 … it is supposed to contain lot of active enzyme too … if u r interested … i can check it out and come back to u ???

  27. Hi 凡夫俗子,

    Recently me and my hubby also feel pain at our foot (脚板跟)after we consume both enzyme & kefir, it never happen before when we just having enzyme only, I wonder is it so call 瞑眩反应 too…

    My auntie also have sour knee problem, her condition is more severe, not only sour but pain till cannot climb stairs have to take injection every 6 moths, after taking kefir for a month she feel much better, the knee “loosen” a lot.

  28. Talking about knee and heel (脚板跟)pain, I used to have these conditions for one year, couldn’t even walk or stand for too long. Every morning when I stepped down from bed, the pain was sharp at the heel.

    3 months after I started taking kefir daily, these conditions disappeared gradually, amazing.
    I guess kefir helps to get rid of inflammation and soothes the nerve, for some people.

  29. hi beginner …
    u see … i told u there r lot of kind hearted ppl here … now both cynthia and joyful have somehow reinforced my belief that kefir works …
    but, of course, we are not medical practitioners … we only observe wat has happened to our health problem when we start to consume enzyme / kefir … n just sharing our experience …
    u still have to make ur own judgement la … don ever point figure at me … 凡夫俗子 said one huh … hahaha … just kidding …

  30. Hi everyone,

    Thanks for the sharing. I will stick to my enzymes and see what happens later.

    I believe I might have tried kefir some five or six years ago, (i do not know is called kefir at that time). White lumps soak/feeds in milk and produce sour thicken milk after one day.

    I try for a month and stop when too busy to continue.

    I still have some frozon on the fridge, i don’t whether it still alive after I defrost it. Will try this weekend.

    Joyful, if my kefir did not survive, can u please be so kind to give me some?

    …………………………

    I have just harvested my second bottle, is green kiwi enzymes. The juice is very very sweat and sticky, compare with the pineapple. Why are they so difference??

    Is this because they are different kind of fruit or because I have put too many sugar on the kiwi bottle? (sugar ratio is 1:1 as the pinapple one)

    What should I do next time if the juice is too sweet??

    ……………

    Also, I have made two more bottles today. One is banana + kiwi + ginger + lemon, is this conbination ok?? My friend said the juice is very acidic, so I try to put some ginger in. Will this reduce the acidic?? What fruit i should add ginger in??

    The other is guava + lemon.

  31. Beginner,
    Let it ferment for longer epriod if you want it to turn sour. I don’t get it , are complaining your enzyme taste too sweet or too acidic ?

  32. Hi, enzymo

    Sorry I have not explain clearly.

    I have made two bottles of green kiwi + lemon enzymes at the same time. (fruit and sugar ratio is 1:1). (and on one bottle, i put a few slide of left over pinapple in it)

    After one month, i harvest the first bottle = green kiwi + pinapple – I give it to my friend. The juice is not sticky and taste good. But to my friend, is very acidity. So, I am thinking of adding ginger in the next bottle. But I am not sure if this will help.

    2) the second bottle is green kiwi only, and i kept it for 40 days. But the juice is very sticky and sweet (much more sweet than the first bottle = one with pinapple). I wonder if it is kiwi only, i should put less sugar in it. Or is the extra pinapple on the other bottle making all the difference.

    Sorry for the confusion. I hope this will be more clear.

    Different fruit and different time make different resuit. There are so much to be learn. very interesting.

  33. hi beginner …
    hmmm … in theory … frozen kefir grains are into hibernation … u need to wake them up by feeding them milk … u may have to have a few milk changes until u can see the curb n whey formation …
    hahaha … i m only a gp … u may write to kefirbay@yahoo,com , our resident specialist in kefir, joyful … so the charges are different la … hahaha … just kidding …

  34. Beginner,
    Seeds always interfere the fermentation process. It you want to make kiwi enzyme , you need to add more lime/lemon/pineapple.

  35. hi beginner …
    kiwi are soft fruits like banana … this is also the reason why the end product is more sticky & slimy than other fruits ….
    if u r into juicing … then u may know wat i mean … u get not juice but nectar if u juice fruit like kiwi, banana, ripe papaya … the juice is thick …
    if u want to add soft fruit into ur diy enzyme … i will recommend u use 1/3 of it and 2/3 other fruits … then the enzyme u harvest wont b so sticky la …

  36. Hi everyone,

    Oh, what a relieve. At least I know my sticky kiwi juice is enzymes, although is very sweet and sticky, I can still drink, right?? I will combine it with my pinapple enzymes to reduce the sweetness.

    What should I do with my new 2 bottles

    1) banana (70%) + kiwi + ginger + lemon
    Do banana has seed too??? Should i add more lemon/ lime on them to make it less sticky?? And to reduce the sweetness, I should keep it longer, say 2 months, right??

    2) guava + lemon = as above,
    To reduce sticky, should i take out some of the guava and add more lemon/ lime on it?? To reduce sweetness, should i keep it for 2 months??

    …………

    As for my kefir, I have defreezed it. Wash it with water, put it in a glass container with milk. Plan to leave it for 24 hours.

    Can u tell me if the kefir is ok, what will I find after 24 hours. If it should taste sticky and sour, is it kefir or the milk turn sour???

    Should i feed it with milk a few days/ times b4 i try to drink it??

    sorry after so long not making it, I have no confidence at all.

  37. Hi beginner,

    I took the liberty to migrate your Kefir Q to the Tale of Kefir thread and I will answer you there, for the sake of other readers.

  38. hi beginner …
    i think ur enzyme 1 will be sticky … cos soft fruits made the bulk of it … but … in my opinion … u shld not b so concerned if the enzyme is sticky or not … if too sticky … just diluted it with water n ice la … it will a long cool refreshing drink on a hot afternoon …. by the pool ??? hahaha …
    enzyme 2 shld be ok … guava n lemon produce pretty clear enzyme ….

    longer fermenting period will definitely give u sour enzyme cos the sugar has been thoroughly consumed by the good bacteria … but one thing u must bear in mind … risk of contamination goes up over time …

  39. Hi, 凡夫俗子,

    u mention ‘ taking enzyme made of small bitter gourd + guava …’

    What is ‘small bitter gourd’?? (葫蘆屬植物;葫蘆) is this a vegatable???

    What are the ingredient and proportion on this gourd + guava enzymes. I have friend that are diabetic, I want to start making this enzymes for them. ( I got low blood sugar, not know if i should drink it).

    ……….

    Mr enzymo,

    Is it possible for me to buy some book from you?? I will send u an email for more details.

    ………..

  40. hi beginner …
    small bitter gourd is 小苦瓜 … guava is 番石榴 …
    small bitter gourd is more popular in the indian n malay community … chinese usually prefer the normal 苦瓜 … the big one i mean …
    the proportion of the fruit depends if u can stand the bitterness of the gourd …
    if u don mind the bitterness … u use 2 parts of bitter guord + 1 part of guava …
    or u may use 2 parts of guava + 1 part of bitter gourd … which has a sweeter taste …
    or u may use equal portion …
    pian tang is abt 1 pack for every kg …

    as wat i know from reading medical journal … diabetic is caused by mild function of the pancreas … incapable of produring sufficient insulin to regulate the blood sugar .. causing the sugar reading to go up or down …

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